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New rotors after only 2 years?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by mr_yellow, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. mr_yellow

    mr_yellow Junior Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I brought my Prius into the dealership for regular scheduled maintenance and they're saying I need to change my rear rotors + pads due to too much rust... I asked if the rotors could be machined and they said no.

    These rotors + pads are only 2 years old as I had them changed by a local mechanic with Inroble rotors and wagner pads for basically the exact same reason the dealership found 2 years earlier. I find it hard to believe they're in need of replacement *that* soon.

    I know regenerative braking will engage the physical brakes less and I suppose that could lead to rusty rotors (I don't regen brake *that* much) but 2 years seems a little excessive.

    They're also recommending replacing the front rotors too for similar reasons.

    Am I being taken for a ride? or are aftermarket parts really that much worse than OEM? or are rusty rotors going to be an ongoing issue with the prius? We've owned the car ~4 years now...

    Thanks,
     
    #1 mr_yellow, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  2. Lucifer

    Lucifer Senior Member

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    Get a second opinion, as regenerative braking does the work, not the brakes, and the rust isn't on the wearing surface, have the pads measured and have the calipers adjusted and the pins greased, yes, Toyota is fleecing you, but do have them professionally checked and serviced yearly.
    Have the fluid changes every three years.
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Fairly relevant: disclose your (general) location.

    Did your mechanic have previous experience with 3rd gen Prius rear brakes? It is imperative to assemble the rear brake with the caliper piston in a specific orientation, so that the spoke pattern on the piston face straddles the pin on back of pad (does the wagner pad even have this pin?). You also want to ensure the whole assembly is well seated thus. Other wise the piston may rotate when the parking brake is applied, ride up on the pin, and from there on you will have brake drag.

    What did the rotor rust look like? See if you can talk to the mechanic. If it was uneven wear, and roughly 50% of the inner face of rotor completely rusty, that would be another clue to aforementioned improper assembly.
     
    #3 Mendel Leisk, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
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  4. mr_yellow

    mr_yellow Junior Member

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    I'm in southern ontario, canada. So salty winters are a big factor. The car also takes generally 99% short city drives.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Here's what the inner rotor of mine looked like, 6 months after I opened up and reassemble the rear brakes, blissfully unaware of the need to align the pin with the piston:

    upload_2018-3-29_8-7-59.png

    I ended up replacing the pads, but the rotors I just steel wooled and reused. They still sounded terrible for about a week, but eventually back to normal. Here's a snapshot of how the piston should be oriented, to straddle the pin:

    upload_2018-3-29_8-10-29.png

    Failure to do this, the piston starts rotating (and screwing out in the process) and the pin on back of inner pads rides up on one of the spokes, causing drag and skewed brake pad pressure on the rotor. You get the rust per above, and the pad looks like this:

    upload_2018-3-29_8-11-53.png

    It's interesting too: if it were just environment, why are the front brakes ok. Bottom line, Toyota's 3rd gen rear brake design, with incorporated parking brake mechanism, is poor. Because it is unorthodox, requires diligent/specific care to avoid this situation.

    I'll attach the Repair Manual Section on brakes:
     

    Attached Files:

    #5 Mendel Leisk, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  6. mr_yellow

    mr_yellow Junior Member

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    My mechanic has had previous experience. I mentioned the rear brake orientation before and he knew about it. The dealership mechanic didn't mention anything about it either so I assume it's not an issue but I'll take a look myself when I get a chance to get the car up on a jack. Try to take some pics too..
     
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    See how the rear wheels spin when the car's up. Normal condition, there's a slight bit of noise/drag, but the wheel will easily free-spin a revolution or two.
     
  8. mr_yellow

    mr_yellow Junior Member

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    I guess I omitted a critical piece of info. The dealership wanted to replace the front rotors too. I figured they were just getting greedy since they said the front pads are down to 2mm.

    But if it is environmental, what can I do to ensure I don't have to spend $1000 on new rotors and pads every two years?
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why aren't you going back to your mechanic for a looks and discussion? it is possible that nothing is wrong, dealerships have all manner of ways to make money.

    how many miles in those two years?
     
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  10. mr_yellow

    mr_yellow Junior Member

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    I will be going back to my mechanic but the car's at the dealership as we speak so I just haven't gotten to that juncture. Just wasn't sure if 2 years seemed too soon for this type of work so I wanted to run it past the experts here. To me, it feels too early. but as mendel mentioned, it could be environmental since the dealership wants to do the front rotors too. but as friendly as they are at the dealership, I have a deep deep distrust of their pricing and sales tactics.
     
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Second this. And how many miles (well km's) in total?

    I'm still wondering too, if the Wagner pads were completely compliant, had the backing plate pin:

    upload_2018-3-29_9-15-43.png

    Addendum: Googling, it looks like Wagner pads do have the pin.
     
    #11 Mendel Leisk, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  12. NutzAboutBolts

    NutzAboutBolts Senior Member

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    If you’re the type that is a DIYer, you would save so much money on this job. The rotors should last along time unless you’re in a cold snowy wet climate, which can rust and destroy your brakes quicker than summer places.
     
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  13. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    Does your car sit for extended periods? Usually, rusty rotors are due to non-use.

    And yes, aftermarket rotors are generally of lower quality. They will tend not to last as long, and will rust more easily than OEM Toyota.
     
  14. mr_yellow

    mr_yellow Junior Member

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    Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'd love to do this job myself but have the typical excuses (kids/work/etc...) Plus i thought the regen braking would complicate things but I just checked out nutzaboutboltz's video and it looks like there isn't any extra complicated. I've done my pads in my subaru in the past so I'm not totally clueless...

    In terms of km's driven, it's very little... the car drives <8 kms a day and sits outside in a parking lot 5 days a week. weekends we drive a little more depending on the outing. It's a daily driver so no extended periods of non-usage.

    So a 2 year lifespan for rotors is sounding more and more plausible? Maybe I'll splurge for OEM parts this time...
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Replacement rotors are maybe not the expensive, but in my case, even though I'd messed up and they'd had uneven wear, a bit of steel wool, and 2~3 weeks down the road they were completely healed. As long as they're not out of true, and good thickness. See attachment for specs. You can check for yourself with dial gauge and micrometer.

    If you're not going to DIY though, I think dealership will be reluctant to send you on your way with new pads but knackered rotors. Maybe just chalk it up to experience?

    If you have an opportunity to jack up the back end beforehand though: it'd be real interesting to see how those rear wheels turn. Be safe, chock the fronts.
     
  16. mr_yellow

    mr_yellow Junior Member

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    Well they were perfectly okay with me saying i'd do the work elsewhere and letting my wife take back the car. The car's obviously not so undrivable that it'd be a safety hazard (one would assume). I'll take a peak at the rotors this weekend and make the call... just wish it wasn't so rainy where I am right now.

    BTW, which attachment are you referring to where I can get the rotor specs? I have a digital calipers... I just don't have anything that can measure the grooves of the rotor (if there are any)

    edit: nm, found the attachement!

    Thanks!
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    let's put it this way, two year rotors are extremely rare, in any climate, but anything is possible.
    some have had trouble with the rear brakes because they don't get the same use as the front, and the caliper slide pins seize up.
     
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  18. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    If you are running ceramic brake pads, they will wear out rotors faster. I myself prefer semi-metallic pads, They stop the car faster without warm up and rotors tend to live longer. Brake pads and rotors can wear out faster depending of load/weight, hills, speed etc. The brake regeneration does a great job. 1st set of pads wore out in 120k on the 2010. I had to replace the rotors on my 2011 @ 297k because of rust and now it is on its 3rd set of pads with 309k.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    extrapolating that to mean 1,500 - 2,500 miles per year. if that's the case, it would be surface rust like we all get, and dealer shenanigans involved. if more than that, i would question what kind of rotors the mechanic installed.
     
  20. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    The rear drivers side rotor on out newly acquired Prius V (wagon) has a *severe* amount of rust on the rotor hub. Rotor friction surface is fine. Very strange as the other three have very little rust. Of course, I have no idea what the history of the vehicle is other than it was run in a fairly 'dirty' environment ( probably lots of dirt roads ). No history of any brake work either. Of course, that means nothing as the previous owner could have done their own maintenance, etc...Or maybe a dud rotor?

    I went ahead and ordered a nice zinc-plated rotor/pad kit for all 4 wheels from R1 concepts ( I had noticed some of the modders have used this brand ). They look nice. Planning on installing them this spring/summer.