Featured EPA Chief Pruitt pushes back CARB

It's sad that unlike our cars and bodies, we can't simply flush the government out periodically to remove all the choking garbage, har, har.


Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
AChoiredTaste.com

 

And you know that, how exactly ??
Were you directly involved ???

And what would you like to have them negotiate........relaxed standards that mean dirtier air and water ??

It seems like I distinctly remember ALL of the Republican leaders publicly stating that they would not negotiate ANYTHING with the Obama administration. And they said it loud and often. So things proceeded without them.......with totally predictable results.

 

I hope you are right. I believe CARB has been anti-science for at least 20 years, and the EPA for even longer. The DOE is probably the proper place for these fuel economy standards, because they seem to at least have scientists in many positions and for the most part the agency has been run by someone with a science based education not a law degree like Pruitt or Nichols. The 3 ring circus of NHTSA, EPA, and CARB all doing their political thing to the rules is not a promising development.

Unfortunately politics has become worse - you will hear that improvements have cost less than estimated, and you will hear that car makers can't sell the cars mandated. Both have a little bit of lawyerly lies or truth ;-)

A nice look back - CAFE: A Brief Guide to the Corporate Average Fuel-Economy Law for Cars and Trucks | Feature | Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog
Then a couple of diffrent opinions
Repealing Fuel Economy Standards To Cost American Households Nearly $1000 Per Year
A Gas Tax Is Much, Much, More Efficient Than The CAFE Standards So Why Have We The CAFE Standards?

Bottom line - automakers will not build enough fuel efficient cars if regulators don't push them. At the same time poor regulations make new cars more expensive, and slow adoption, and distort the market.

Ideally if you were trying to push the small number of automakers to produce desirable efficient cars, you would not want the obvious distortions built into the system.

First it uses the old 2 test cafe, instead of a test that more clearly reflects real world fuel economy. Then you let larger vehicles have lower standards, which means that if automakers shift to larger vehicles the new standards will do much less than promised. There are some easy fixes to do if you ignore the politics. Propose to get a driving pattern that looks like the way the country drives say by 2025. Until then use the 5 cycle test which is better than the 2 cycle test. Get rid of the footprint bonus, reduce the amount of improvement, then you at least have something measurable. Sure allow pick up trucks to have higher consumption than econoboxes, but why encourage monstrosity sized suvs over station wagons. CAFE does that. Increase the gas tax, that would reduce the loss for efficient vehicles. OK OK, Mary Nichols doesn't like these things because she wants big numbers even if they don't reduce pollution. Scott Pruitt doesn't like these things because he wants more oil used, not less. Congress seems to really favor more expensive new cars and paying for roads through income taxes instead of an oil or gas tax increase.

Oh small print. Fuel cell cars get huge bonses just like bevs. The 2 cycle test favors less aerodynamic vehicles and turbo chargers. The standards give diesel a bonus, because really we want cheaters, or at least the regulators that wrote the rules did.

 

Made me smile:

Secretary Perry is a veteran of the United States Air Force, a former farmer and rancher, and the longest-serving governor In Texas history, having led the world’s 12th-largest economy from 2000 to 2015. He has devoted his adult life to creating prosperity and opportunity for families.
. . .
Perry grew up the son of tenant farmers in the tiny West Texas community of Paint Creek. The younger of Ray and Amelia Perry’s two children, he was active in scouting and earned distinction as an Eagle Scout. He was one of the first in his family to go to college, earning a degree in Animal Science from Texas A&M University, where he was also a member of the Corps of Cadets and a Yell Leader.

Between 1972 and 1977, Perry served in the U.S. Air Force flying C-130 tactical airlift aircraft in Europe and the Middle East. He is a lifetime member of both the NRA and American Legion Post #75. Prior to being elected Lieutenant Governor in 1998, he served two terms as Texas Commissioner of Agriculture and three terms in the Texas House of Representatives.​

Source: Secretary Perry Drives a Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car | Department of Energy

There was an earlier report suggesting a hydrogen car was Perry's daily commuter. Apparently it was just a 'demo.' No doubt he has a government limo and driver.

Bob Wilson

 

NO industry is ever given a "fair shake" when they are forced to spend a little money to be environmentally responsible.......according to them.

 

Some lobbyist, including CARB chief Marry Nichols got hydrogen day passed, and Perry did a photo op for them. When Chu stood up to them, he had his budget cut, perry is more political and paying lip service. She is very proud to own and promote her mirai. CARB is part of the CFCP - which is mainly a lobbying organization for fuel cell vehicles.
https://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/newsrelease.php?id=803

Mary Nichols Shares the Joys of a Hydrogen Fuel Cell Ride - Los Angeles Magazine


I don't personally like the head of the DOE, or think he was a good choice, forgetting that he wanted to destroy it in an oops moment in a debate. Still if you don't like the photo op of him, then you probably don't like to decades of lobbying by her. He at least had a science based undergraduate degree ;-) Unlike pruitt or nichols.

Pruitt is even worse than nichols.
In Latest 'Alarming' Attack on Science, Pruitt Reportedly Moving to Restrict Use of Research in EPA Policy

 

There have been 60+ mpg production cars since the 1960’s I own one.

I also was driving electrically for many years at 160 WT/HRS per mile (off the wall) in a well maintained 1980 electric car with a slightly tweaked alignment.

I don’t think CAFE is out of line but the government does not drive cost of operation to large vehicles so folks buy inefficient pigs.

Add cost and you can change behavior and auto tastes.

 

Here is an oldy from when legislation passed. It has the gen III not gen IV prius. The gen III prius gets 68.7 mpg cafe and needs 47.5 in 2021 and 57.1 in 2025.
The CAFE Numbers Game: Making Sense of the New Fuel-Economy Regulations - Feature - Car and Driver
The rav4 is similar to the cr-v which requires 39.3 in 2021 and 47.4 in 2025. With the mix of hybrids and normal rav4s they should be easily making the 2021 figure, but 2025 is tough without at least a phev version.
The regulations were backloaded, and that is the problem. There are big jumps required that won't happen unless people want to pay more for these more efficient vehicles. With low gas prices (a gas tax would help companies meet cafe), car makers will either make less efficient vehicles much more expensive to sell the efficient ones, or pay fines. They should at least change it to use current epa 5 cycle test, and change footprint so that a fiesta and porsche 911 are not required to get higher mpg than a prius.

CAFE: A Brief Guide to the Corporate Average Fuel-Economy Law for Cars and Trucks | Feature | Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog
To me part of the problem is the fakeness of the system means that manufacturers will build to pass the old tests that have nothing to do with how we drive today, or lobby to sell fuel cells even more that get huge bonuses.

 

77 is japanese jc08 for gen III prius, 96 mpg is for gen IV prius on this test.

68.7 is 37.5% above epa 5 cycle fuel economy. The gen IV eco gets 12% better in the 5 cycle test, and who knows this may really be closer to 20% better in the wierd 2 cycle cafe calculation with bonus for being a hybrid. That could make gen IV prius eco 82 mpg, far short of the regular gen IVs jc08 score. The problem comes into meeting 2025 scores without plug-in adoption for suvs and trucks, and even if these scores are hit, the mix will make real world mpg gains much less than promised when new standards were passed unless gas prices rise greatly.