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Is this install as bad as it looks?

Discussion in 'Prime Accessories and Modifications' started by Insighter, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    It really sucks that you had to go through all of that with your exciting and pretty new car! You might take them up on paying for the detail you get from your own detail person!! Then you get to find out how truly sorry they really are!!
    If they installed that molding for $280 (a MAXIMUM 1 hr job for a pro), that's $280/hr labor!! My cardiologist doesn't charge that, and he's in "high rent district" Southern California!!

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  2. Insighter

    Insighter Active Member

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    You're right about the price. I was willing to pay it because I wanted to get it done right, or, alternatively, if it wasn't done right, to get it redone properly. I just wish I hadn't had to go through the extra trouble. When you bring someone your business, you want it to go smoothly and for everyone to be happy.

    On a separate note, I'm going to be posting a thread summarizing all I've found out on the spare tire issue (due in large part to contributions from you and others). I learned something interesting yesterday at the dealership that I hadn't heard before, but maybe it is common knowledge? I was speaking to the parts department manager about spare tires. He told me that it is very important that if you have front tire go flat on a Prius (Prime or regular) and you replace it with a donut spare that you put the donut spare on the back wheel and move the good back wheel to the front where the flat was. In other words, never drive with a donut spare on the front, even for a short distance. He said that the front is particularly sensitive to the difference in wheel diameter, etc. Did you know that? It makes sense, but I'd never heard that before.
     
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  3. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    Yes, I've heard that the space saver spare should always go on the rear, regardless of where the original flat was.

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  4. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    The donut spare is matched in diameter to your other tires/wheels, although it is narrower. You'll see that the wheel is a 17" wheel with a very low aspect ratio tire, to match the overall size of the other tires. In any case, you shouldn't drive the car more than a few miles anyway, as the warning on the spare indicates. You're also supposed to drive more slowly with a donut too. It's only an EMERGENCY fix, to get you to a repair shop.


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  5. Insighter

    Insighter Active Member

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    Actually, according to everything I've seen, the spares are not the same diameter. Look at this link: Tire Size Comparison

    The OEM tire on my Prime is a P195/65R15. That OEM tire is 25" in diameter. My spare (from a 2012 Prius as far as I know) is a T135/80R16, which is 24.5" in diameter. The spare you mentioned you've mentioned you bought in other threads is a T125/70D17, which is 23.9" (if I'm using the calculator I linked you to properly) . So, they are close, but they are not the same height. The parts manager said any difference is enough to cause a problem, so to always put the donut on the back, even if the flat is on the front.
     
  6. SHDL

    SHDL Junior Member

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    Thanks, OP, for sharing the before and after pics. It is very obvious that the first installer just eye-balled sticking on the moldings, without taking the time to follow Toyota's meticulous installation instructions for measuring the exact height at each end. It is good that the service manager could see that both sides were not installed to spec, and took care of the problem. They look very nice on your car!

    Just two weeks ago I added side moldings to my new Prime as a do-it-yourself job. I bought the OEM moldings from a dealer for $185, taking advantage of weekend sale on anything over $150 that the parts department was having. I was going to have a local body shop install the moldings, but decided I wanted to first play around with placement. I felt that the factory-installed side moldings I had seen on a Prime at the dealer were too low to block the majority of parking lot dings from doors of other cars. I wanted to see how the moldings would look about 4 inches higher.

    I downloaded the official installation directions (don't remember where I found them), and carefully followed the directions for marking where the moldings should be installed. Then I taped the moldings on with a short cross strips of blue painter's masking tape on each end, and looked it over. Definitely much too low, I decided. Next, I marked parallel lines 4 inches higher, and taped the moldings on again. It looked very nice on the front doors, but the higher moldings did not look good at all on the rear doors. They were much to short when sitting that far above the rear wheel fender arc. I kept repeating the process, moving the moldings down an 1 inch at a time, and then stepping back and looking at both sides of the car from several angles. The end result of that hour-long process, was that I felt the moldings looked best pretty much right where Toyota said to put them. I was only about 1/2 inch higher by the time I was satisfied with the look.

    After all that trial and error, I realized that all I had to do was peal off the protective layer on the double-sided tape, and stick the moldings on. It turned out to be very simple, once I had carefully followed the Toyota instructions for marking the positions. But it did take me a good half-hour to measure, put on strips of painter's masking tape, and mark the heights recommended in the instructions. It is definitely one of those projects where it is important to check all the measurements, recheck, and check again to ensure the moldings are straight and at an angle that nicely lines up with curves in the sheet metal.

    It's a personal taste, but I think the two-tone, slightly wedged shaped Gen 4 side moldings really make the car look nice. They accent they look of the car perfectly. And, hopefully, the moldings will prevent at least a few of those inevitable door-dings. For me, though, the styling alone makes them a nice addition to my new toy. My Prime is a Silver Advanced model, BTW.
     
  7. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    I won't let it happen again, I"M SORRY, REAL SORRY.:D
     
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    OK....
    So not to chase this squirrel too far....
    Current internet "wisdom" suggests that having a tire that is miss-matched from its mates by more than "about a quarter inch CAN" damage AWD and 4WD transfer cases. I suppose that this is true enough, but Priuses are FWD (FRONT wheel drive) cars, and like most cars.....you also steer them from the front. (it will come to you....)

    The reason why they don't usually let Parts Department Managers work on cars is very similar to the reason that they do not let hospital gift store managers perform open heart surgery.
    Store managers and Cardiac surgeons can both be very good people, they just have different skill sets.

    So for those that think that "Doughnut" spares are proper spares?
    They are!
    BUT!!!!
    They have limitations, and should only be used to limp the car home or to a tire shop for an immediate repair/replacement.

    There are a few very good reasons to consider putting the 'doughnut' on the back of the car but they have nothing to do with some mysterious forces working in your car's innards, but rather because most of your car's braking and steering are accomplished from the front two tires and doughnut spares give you very limited performance.
    They're skinnier and harder than the OEM tires and they only have to approximate the performance of the OEM tires.....because..........(wait for it!).......they should only be used to limp the car home or to a tire shop for an immediate repair/replacement.

    The idea that somebody should use the erector-set inspired tools to remove a good rear tire and replace it with the doughnut, and then repeat the procedure to replace the damaged front tire with the previously removed rear tire seems a little irresponsible for an emergency roadside repair.....especially in marginal conditions and with inattentive, impatient drivers whizzing by a few dozen feet away.

    Common sense:
    fail.
     
    #28 ETC(SS), Mar 1, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  9. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    I couldn't have said it better!

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
    AChoiredTaste.com
     
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  10. Insighter

    Insighter Active Member

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    Hi ETCSS-
    Well, you get into a lot of things here:

    Yes, a donut spare is limited and you only use it as long as you have to. I think most people posting here are not the type to run around on a donut spare for a few weeks. However, the even the minimum distance you might have to drive with a spare tire installed could be anywhere up to 50 miles or more, depending on where you are.

    As far as the safety of changing a tire goes, if there are cars whizzing by, I'm probably not going to try to change my tire at all. If there are cars whizzing by, that means I'm in a densely-populated area, so I'll let AAA take care of things. This spare is only for a rare emergency. If I do somehow need to change a tire in a crowded area, I carry four of those reflective orange triangles, as well as LED and traditional road flares (everyone should have these types of things in their car). If I had to change a front flat tire in a heavy traffic situation, I'd put the donut on the front. If I had a long way to go to get the tire fixed, I'd then pull over somewhere safe and swap the donut with the good back tire. If the nearest repair shop is only a couple of miles away, I might just drive there with the donut on the front.

    While there is certainly a difference in the knowledge of service and parts personnel, I don't see the point of what you've said. The parts department guys are the ones to ask about spare tires. If you bought one from the manufacturer (Toyota), they are the people who would order it for you. As far as the parts department manager's recommendation to put the spare on the back, I don't think you've said anything that suggests that advice was wrong.

    On a less important note, you'd be hard-pressed to find a donut spare referred to as a "doughnut" spare. While either spelling is correct for the fried cake, "donut" is used almost exclusively when referring to spares. I mention that because I think it is relevant in terms of searching forums and the internet.
     
  11. ct89

    ct89 Active Member

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    I'm having trouble connecting the doughnut discussion with how the OP moldings look...Seems like we drifted...:)
     
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  12. Insighter

    Insighter Active Member

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    Wow, you are even more particular than I am! Whether the factory-recommended placement height was the best option did cross my mind, but I never thought to go through what you've gone through to test it. I'd like to see a photo of the end result if you could post one here.

    I do like the look of the moldings, and that was the key factor in my decision to buy them. Given the different shape and height of doors on cars, I, like you, wonder how effective they are. It sounds like if they didn't look good, neither of us would have bought them.

    One thing that surprised me about the moldings was how "thrown-together" they looked before installing them. I thought they would have some sort of custom fitted adhesive strip made into them, but it was just strips of two-sided mounting tape. I'm sure that's fine, but it did surprise me a bit.
     
  13. Insighter

    Insighter Active Member

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    I'm afraid I hijacked my own thread. I wanted to ask Henri a side question about a post I'm planning on donut spares, but I still haven't figured out how to send private messages on this site.
     
  14. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    When using the web interface either click "Start a conversation" under their name on a posting or go to the mail icon in the upper right beside the Alerts flag. Then choose "Start a New Conversation"
     
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  15. Insighter

    Insighter Active Member

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    I looked at that, but it seems to be for something with multiple people, so it didn't seem right. I tried posting on someone else's wall (profile posts area), but I never got a response, so that didn't seem to work.
     
  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    I have done conversations just one-to-one. In fact, I started one today.
    I restricted mine some because some users were starting a multi-person conversation instead of starting a forum thread.
     
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  17. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    There's a "reason" why it's advantageous to place a donut [sic] in the rear rather than in the front, but as I said before it has nothing to do with any mysterious mechanical forces inside your car.
    The only reason that keep picking this nit is that there are still people out there who actually think that following dealership advice is actually a wise thing to do, and somebody who cannot afford AAA membership might actually think that they will hurt their car if they do not put the donut spare on a rear hub.
    I do not mind people in dealerships parts departments giving out gratuitous advice, but whenever someone throws out a blanket statement like "never put a donut [sic] spare on the front a car" I need to know why this is so.
    Remember....these are also the same people that are famous for giving their "customers" advice like:
    "Your car needs a transmission flush."

    Every now and then, everyone gives out bad advice.....and I did not want to do likewise in this case so I took the liberty of searching the owner's manual for any warnings, notices, cautions, about miss-mounting the compact spare that my auto-correcting browser keeps trying to call a "doughnut" spare, since this advice is not present in my 2010's manual:
    https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM47668U/pdf/OM47668U.pdf

    So....I looked in the 2018 manuals, curious as to what has changed in the drivetrain:

    https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM47C17U/pdf/OM47C17U.pdf
    https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM47B89U/pdf/OM47B89U.pdf

    According to the above owner's manuals (2018 Prius/Prime) there is no mention of not putting a compact spare on the front except on ice or snow covered roads (just like mine).
    The OMs do give the standard cautionary tales for compact spares but there is no mention of damage to drive-line components for their use in Priuses because Priuses are front-wheel-drive vehicles, and thus it was anticipated that the front tires might not always be rotating at the same speeds.....such as when you have a compact spare on the car.....or.....perhaps when you're steering the car. ;)

    Owner's manuals are not perfect though.
    They also mention taking the car to the nearest Toyota dealership for a repair - something that I would never do even IF the Toyota dealership was the closer than my home or any other tire shop.

    As always......
    YMMV!

    Good Luck!
     
  18. Insighter

    Insighter Active Member

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    You are introducing hypotheticals (cars whizzing by and people who can't afford AAA) to bolster your argument that what the parts manager said is wrong. You can always come up with a set of circumstances that is going to change what course of action is advisable. The parts manager said not to put a compact spare on the rear, even if you have to switch tires back-to-front, and you come up with a dangerous situation where that isn't true. I say I'd get a tow from AAA in that situation, you say not everyone can afford AAA. You can go down that road of coming up with hypotheticals forever, but it does not change the basic logic.

    Saying I'd use AAA is only saying that I would not try to change a tire with traffic whizzing by and would instead get a tow. There are all kinds of ways to get towed, including AAA and other types of coverage through your car insurance or through some credit cards (even my car alarm on my Maxima has towing coverage). You can also pay out-of-pocket. If you can't afford to have your car towed in the case of a serious-enough emergency, there's a very good argument that you can't afford to be driving. Sometimes towing will be the only option, or at least the only safe option. If you're in San Diego and you break down on the Coronado Bay Bridge during rush hour, professional towing will be your only option. If you were to try to change a tire on that bridge, they will automatically send a tow truck (the bridge is under surveillance).

    To say that taking the time to switch a back tire to the front is not reasonable in some situations is only obvious. In some situations nothing but a tow would be safe. In other situations you might have all the time in the world to change a tire safely.

    At least half of the flats I've had in my life were in parking lots or even my own driveway. In fact, in over 30 years of driving, I can only recall one flat tire that happened while I was driving. In a parking lot situation, I'm free to take all of the time I want. If I don't have far to drive (meaning less than a few miles at low speeds) I might leave a donut on the front. But if I need to drive farther than that, I will switch a back tire to the front.

    You quote a 2010 Prius manual for as evidence of whether to put a donut on the front. I can quote a Mazda manual that says, "Do not install the temporary spare tire on the front wheels (driving wheels): Driving with the temporary spare tire on one of the front driving wheels is dangerous. Handling will be affected. You could lose control of the vehicle, especially on ice or snow bound roads, and have an accident. Move a regular tire to the front wheel and install the temporary spare tire to the rear." In the final analysis, I don't think you can quote anything that says it's better to have the donut on the front of the car.

    I think there are some undeniable facts:
    Changing a tire is always more or less dangerous depending on circumstances.
    Compact (donut) spares should only be driven on for as far as is necessary.
    Compact spares are more dangerous than regular tires.
    There is no car or tire manufacturer that says its better to have a compact spare on the front axle.

    You originally weighed in to suggest situations in which and reasons why it would not make sense to shift a compact spare to the back in the event of a front flat tire, and then declared "Common sense: fail." You might as well say, "What if the lug nuts on the back tires are stuck and you'll die of exposure if you can't get back on the road?" I think we can presume the manager would recommend driving with the compact spare on the front in that situation. If your trying to flee a rapidly-approaching wildfire, we can presume that he did not mean his advice to apply to that situation and would agree that it wouldn't be wise to spend time swapping the good back tire with the flat front tire. He might even recommend driving off on your rim, even if in the past he had told you never to do that.
     
  19. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    I bet it's 3M VHB tape - he's lucky that it didn't "set" yet. Kind of amusing how many car accessories are stuck on with the stuff; from Lamborghini body kits to that little spoiler on the trunk of the Model S to pedestrian body mouldings on sports trim cars.
     
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  20. iregret

    iregret Junior Member

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    How dark is your tint? 20%?