The Secret Prius Prime

Interesting interactive chart here on EV sales for December 2017, 2017 overall and 2016. Not too shabby for our Prime:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/08/tesla-model-s-tesla-model-x-chevy-bolt-2017s-us-electric-car-sales-winners

 

First year rollout is always slow for a variety of reasons, including that one. With worldwide distribution taking place, there's limited inventory available. That tends to create a market target effect... filtering out all but the early adopters, despite being a mainstream intended product. That works great for the sharing of real-world data, prior to the big production ramp-up.

It's how realistic expectations are set. You avoid backlash by not just flooding the market with a product people don't understand.

Remember, it isn't just the disenchanted to be attentive to. There are those who want Prime to fail. Taking the time to let the initial owners guide the way is priceless. That underlying goal of making more money takes a lot to achieve. Great engineering alone is not enough.

 

NY dealer ad:

 

January is a tough sakes month and 2017 inventory must be cleared out. That's a great opportunity for those paying close attention.

 

Think it was this one. Red would have been extra $. Stock number no longer valid. Out on the Island. Deal not on their web page.
Toyota Inventory | New Toyota Inventory Search

 

Mostly agreeing but with a shading:

The Huntsville Toyota dealer also owns the Mitsubishi franchise which is where their only L2 charger is located. But there is no charger on the Toyota side. Of course this is SouthEast Toyota region who has history dragging their feet with new technology. Only one dealer, BMW/Jaguar/Land Rover, has nine EVSE ports:

How does a dealer repair a charging circuit if they don't have an EVSE?

This is why it is important to give Toyota feedback on their first model year:

• Gen-1 2003 Prius was improved over the 2001 with addition of cruise control.
• Gen-2 2009 Prius better than the 2004 if nothing else than fixing the poor solder joint Hobbit diagnosed.
• Gen-3 2015 Prius improved over the 2010 by leaving the factory with the 'brake pause' fix.

Sad to say there is one Prius Prime problem, excessive wheel camber, that I've not tried to share with Toyota. It is highly technical and also found in our BMW i3-REx. The effect wears out tires sooner than necessary. Tire sellers see the pattern of uneven tread wear but the defect sells more tires.

Bob Wilson

 

It is a matter of HOW, not WHY.

Approach makes a huge difference.

Know your audience.

 

So Toyota gives owners a web interface:
Toyota Owners Official Web Site

So I logged into my account and found a contact page listing:

• phone numbers
• e-mail form - does not work with Safari
• postal address

When Safari would not let me enter an e-mail message, I wrote a letter. Later, I found Firefox worked so I cut and pasted the letter. Curiously here are the e-mail options:

1. Select a Topic
*Required

• Recall Information
• New Vehicle Information
• Toyota Certified Used Information
• Dealership Sales Experience
• Dealership Service Experience
• Website Content
• Entune/Bluetooth
• Navigation
• Accessibility
• Other

​

Notice there is no "suggestion" option. Just the generic "Other" which is what I used. Now there is a difference between a 'suggestion' and a 'problem.' A suggestion doesn't cost me anything but problem costs money. For example, I would suggest Toyota switch the steering wheel functions to be identical to my BMW i3-REx. But this doesn't cost me money. In contrast, unnecessary running the gas engine does pick my pocket.

Monday afternoon was nice so I drove the dogs to the dog park. But I forgot to check the temperature and SOC and used the cruise control. Sure enough, the engine came ON. Knowing I would probably have to wait at a left turn light, I restarted the car at the light, no problem.

After the turn, I drove without cruise control but had to go over a small ridge line and OPPS, the engine came ON. Since I was on the downslope and no easy place to park, I continued until I could safely restart the car. Ultimately it turns out I burned 5% of a gallon, 1/20th of a gallon because of the defective Prime control laws in "EV mode" dealing with cruise control and possibly the hill climb and descent.

Since I haven't reported the hill climb and descent, your recommendation is to write a 'suggestion' letter and/or e-mail? Is there a better address to Toyota than the one in "My Toyota?"

Let me try a first draft:

Dear Toyota,

I suggest the Prius Prime "EV mode" is misleading as it sometimes starts the engine going up and descending hills. A retired engineer living on a fixed income with my wife, we bought the Prius Prime to cut our driving cost in half by driving in "EV mode."

This winter we found that "EV mode" can start the gas engine going up or down a hill. Turning on the engine burns gasoline and increases our cost. "EV mode" is not the same as "EV Auto" mode that should turn on the engine to meet power demands. This behavior on hills is not described in the Owner's Manual.

We bought the Prius Prime so we could afford to drive affordable and unambiguously in "EV mode." We expected "EV auto" to be a blended EV and engine mode. Sad to say, "EV mode" appears to be an undocumented, blended mode.

cc: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howle​

This draft starts with "suggest" and soon brings in a legally definable term, "misleading." It incorporates the hurt, the cost of running the engine, and identifies the injured party, a retired family. For good measure, a copy sent to some land sharks.

Hummm, maybe we should just work with the land sharks? Yes, instead of reporting a problem or even a suggestion, let the lawyers handle resolution of the suggestion. ... NOT!

Bob Wilson

 

Yes
Toyota, Mazda announce $1.6 billion plant for Huntsville, Alabama | Reuters

 

Apparently they are planning on making Tacomas in Mexico at that plant.

 

now bob, you should know by now that toyota never has, never will and can never do anything wrong.

 

Somebody, (besides Tesla) needs to get off their rear ends and make a sexy, sporty electric car. Remember when the first Scion XB came out? Everybody laughed at it...........that is...........until they sold like crazy due to its roominess, utility, gas mileage and sportiness. Most of the Car companies are trying to compete with Toyota when it comes to hybrids or electric cars. I say, develop the most sexy, fast and affordable hybrid or electric car...........and watch sales go thru the roof.

In regards to the prime, I am confused like everyone here. I have seem more Primes on the road than 2016 Prius's. Toyota needs to build a car called the "PrimeX" or, "PrimeFactor" or "PrimeSport". It should be a two seater, fully loaded, and sexy as hell! I would sell my 2015 Prius to get one.

 

Here I have seen a few Gen 4 on the road but no Primes. Quite a few older Prii though.

 

"There were no Advanced models; there was no demo, prepped for test driving!"

I had to laugh at this. Heck, no local dealers within 250 miles my location even stocked one Prime in 2017, let alone demo's! I had to drive 500 miles north to buy mine.

Perhaps Toyota probably realizes the Prime's 25 EV miles (or so) isn't going to save owners enough money in fuel costs to write home about (over a standard Prius), not to mention the trade-off in hatch storage area and no spare tire, so they were never anxious to flood the US market with Primes (hence the lack of advertising). I'm guessing Toyota realizes with so many car manufacturers stepping up their EV efforts, Toyota needs step up their game beyond 25 EV miles (or so).

We're closing in on February 2018 and the 2017 Prime is still be advertised on Toyota's website. Something is up.

 

I struggle with the economics here and can see why Toyota might not be really pushing for a larger battery.
My Gen3 Prius used about $1000/year in gas. That's 20K miles at 50mpg and $2.50/gal
My Prime is looking like it will come in closer to $700 for similar usage. 20K miles with 2/3rd EV at $0.03/mile and 1/3rd HV at 55mpg.
Yes, everyone's gas/electric prices are different but I'm seeing $300/year fuel savings.

BUT, assume Toyota made the battery significantly larger and I could do 85% of my driving in EV.
That would reduce my yearly fuel cost to about $650...Not a huge difference...
I love EV driving but there is only so much more I would be willing to pay for a longer-ev-range Prime and it probably isn't enough to get Toyota really excited about adding battery cost to a Prime.

 

Just to add some data to the mix, my 2010 Prius II with 105,000 miles had a total average cost per mile of $0.057 (with no gas prices from 2009 to 2017 over $3.50). My 2017 Prime with 5,381 miles has a total average cost per mile of $0.0169 to date. (no gas prices over 2.49 so far) The $0.0169 includes charging costs @ $0.06 per kWh.

Yes I expect the future gas prices to rise and match the 2010 Prius gas price history closer but even so, if I drove a lot of annual miles, that a big cost difference even in a cheap gasoline state. Yes, lots of variables with kWh prices, gas prices etc., but I think Toyota is missing out by making these so hard to get USA wide. I'm realizing a definite savings over my 2010.

Note, our 2014 Camry Hybrid with 30,513 miles has a total average cost per mile of $0.0633.