A majority of auto executives still think battery electric cars will fail, survey says

Huh. I read the other day that H2 is $10 per Kg and that the Mirai travels about 67 miles per Kg. That works out to 15 cents a mile.

 

bev's will always be able to charge at home overnight, i wonder if fcev's ever will be able.

 

The Mirai has a 5Kg tank. EPA rating is 312 mile range which works out to 62.5 miles/Kg. Very few of us get close to 300 miles per tank. Seat heaters, HVAC, incline, etc. make it very tough to get that range. Some do. 240 miles is normal. Fuel costs vary. $16.50 to $20+/Kg.

There is also the concept of effective range. If a fueling station is 20 miles away round-trip then the effective range in normal usage goes down. Some owners prefer to calculate per mile cost on effective range.

Japan is making a push ahead of the 2020 Olympics to have at-home hydrogen refueling infrastructure.

 

You would need to include charging / fueling infrastructure in those calculations.

 

from what i have read, japan has poor electrical grid, and their driving distances do not compare to ours, so hydrogen might make more sense there, idk.

 

that would be important for the future of each vehicle, but i was just wondering. it seems to me a bev is much simpler, but maybe the size of the battery will make the costs equivalent someday.

 

There is another challenge coming for BEV owners, at least in California. Electric companies are switching customers to time of use (TOU) rates. This means rates will be higher in the evening hours until most people on a normal schedule go to sleep. This reduces the amount of time a BEV can be charged overnight at the cheaper rate. Some BEV owners have already switched to TOU as the cheaper rates work out better when a large battery needs to be charged.

While I haven’t done the math yet, it seems like having faster charging options will become increasingly important to consider. If prices continue to drop on solar and in-home battery packs for electricity storage then they may make sense in multi-BEV households. The challenge will be seeing how much the increased cost of electricity will offset costs of equipment (in cars, homes, etc.).

It will also be interesting to see what kinds of electric utility infrastructure upgrades will be needed if BEVs beat FCEVs and people start shifting away from ICEs... and how much of the cost will be passed to consumers.

 

Thank you for sharing:

We have discussion about fuel cell cars at:
How to Promote the Hydrogen Economy Hoax | Inside EVS Forum

If you have time, your unique insights could help.

Bob Wilson

 

Looks like a bashing party...

 

That thread, perhaps, but there are fuel cell advocates who bring their point of view too.

Living in Dixie, the nearest fuel cells are in the local space museum just outside of Marshall Space Flight Center. Five years ago when I visited at the Toyota Georgetown plant, I only saw battery powered tugs. I can only share my engineering studies and NASA papers about hydrogen ... wicked stuff.

Bob Wilson

 

Thank you for clarifying that. Communications by text only are notoriously difficult. With the lack of visual feedback, tonal feedback, etc words are the only source of the meaning of a statement.
When I saw the qualifier on FCV that they work well, but not on EVs, I wasn't sure what the meaning, if any was. I appreciate the correction.

The time to charge may narrow the usefulness for some.
Here in MN, our TOU off peak time window is 12 hours, although a super-off peak will soon be offered that is only 6 hours.
On a 40A outlet, we can charge about 180 miles in that 6 hours which is more than enough for us, but not 100% of people. I recognize some people drive 200 miles day after day.
If that window narrows even more, that would cut more people out of the market.

I am probably so enamored with EVs because I need to plan less before setting off to a destination than I do a gas car
I also realize that isn't the case for everyone.

 

I was thinking about just that in terms of refueling time.

 

that is a long ways away, but yes, the grid needs updating and more supply. otoh, as gasoline fades, those tax incentives to oil might be applied to electricity production.

 

Only if the oil companies can somehow profit from it. That is why they do not like the idea of charging at home. There is no way for them to extract a profit from that.

 

agreed. it will be an uphill political battle, as it is currently.

 

I don't recall the oil companies getting in the way of my EV purchases or my home PV

Indirectly they distort the market via externaliites

 

who do you think is fighting it? it's behind the scenes money for sure, but that's how pac's work. more than just oil companies, any business adversely affected by renewables.

it's not like rex tillerson is going to do a press conference against it. they are smarter than that.

 

I appreciate the invitation to participate. I recognize that BEVs, FCEVs, PHEVs, etc. all have pros and cons as they exist today. Each of the technologies may work but it requires a bit of thought prior to purchase otherwise disappointment will follow. I am definitely not a keyboard warrior or evangelist for any technology. I don't read many of the EV blogs/forums because of the battles that ensue between the different camps.

 

i would say phev does not require much thought, but maybe a little, if you want to plug it in. at the price of the prime though, it's a no brainer, plug or not.

 

I haven't followed it very closely. What and where are some of the best deals you can get?