A majority of auto executives still think battery electric cars will fail, survey says

I have heard that often, but about mpg, not about mpge.
I am rather ambivalent on it myself. I do think it is a better measuring stick. But while the US is stuck on mpg rather than liters/100km, I don't see how mpge could be changed. Since it's intended purpose is to allow people to directly and easily compare gas and plugin cars.

As for the change in mpge, according to what you listed above, the change (as a percentage) in mpge is smaller than the change in kWh/100 miles.

 

Years ago I worked on a popular TV show (science fiction sorta) any how all TV shows in my era have what is called a bible. It is for the writers and sets the parameters for the show. In this bible the first rule was " The laws of physics do not apply." Seems to me this discussion mirrors that.
The current most popular technology that works is Hybrid cars and to a degree Plug in hybrid cars. Widespread use of these vehicles will bridge the gap until either Hydrogen or Electric or something else wins the battle. As for electric cars, the Tesla Model 3 does not get free use of the Supercharger stations, it costs money, probably more than gasoline, so what is going to power these supercharger stations, natural gas? Coal? Atomic power? Don't think I'll be around to find out that answer, but I hope humankind will be here.

 

Why do you make the assumption, if you don't know the cost, that it will be more than gasoline?
Tesla has specifically stated that the cost in each state will be less than gasoline.
As for what powers them, it will be a combination of the local grid, solar, and batteries depending upon location.
In California that will be solar, batteries, wind, remote solar, hydro and possibly some natural gas.

 

So Elon Musk is to be believed, well ok, as for the charging stations, California has a varied mix of power stations including nuclear, coal(mostly from Arizona), solar, batteries?(how are the batteries charged) wind, hydro and mothers chicken soup.

 

Why do you allow your apparent personal issues with Elon Musk to lead you into such hyperbole?
You don’t have to “believe” Elon, people are being charged right now for SuperCharger use. The prices in each region is listed in the onboard navigation. In CA it is about 20 cents/kWh. For a Model 3, $2.60 will get you about 52 miles. For a Model S, $3.40 would get you about 51 miles, but for an apples to apples comparison, it would only take $1.80 to drive as far as a similar car such as an Audi A7 or BMW7 series could go on a gallon of gas.

As for the CA grid, sure natural gas exists. Nuclear and coal may as well, although both are being reduced.
The batteries at some superchargers likely charge off solar during the peak of solar production. If you aren’t familiar with it, google the “duck curve”. California produces so much energy with solar that the rapid change in net production is becoming a concern. Batteries and other short term storage methods are becoming more and more important.

But even if the superchargers were all drawing directly from the 2014 grid, it is the cleanest way to drive (perhaps barring veggie oil).


New Numbers Are In and EVs Are Cleaner Than Ever - Union of Concerned Scientists

And, the grid continues to get cleaner...

 

Minor technical problem, it would make more sense to use CA gas prices if using CA charge rate.

Bob Wilson

 

My EV charging in Colorado will be a mixture of home PV and Supercharging on trips -- typically in Colorado or NM

Home PV is 2.5 cents a kWh
Supercharging is about 13 cents a kWh in these states

I estimate up to 10% from Supercharging ... so

(2.5*9 + 13)/10 = 3.55 cents a kWh on average
I estimate ~ 4 miles a kWh, so 0.8875 cents a mile

Local gasoline is $2.6 a gallon, so a Prius would pay about 5 cents a mile.

@Munpot42 , aren't facts preferable ?

 

How do you supercharge a Prime? You mean Level 2 charging at Chargepoint, etc.?

 

I was comparing the cost of gasoline miles in a Prime (or any Prius hybrid) to the fueling costs of my upcoming Tesla Model 3 SR.

 

As I didn't know CA gas prices, I left gas prices out of it completely.
The prices I listed are the supercharger prices for a given distance.

 

Your facts are your facts, I live in California, don't have solar and the top Electric rate (Thank you SCE) is now 31 cents a kWh and yes gas is over $3 a gallon here, I pay it gladly to live here. Enjoy the hour wait in line to get to use the supercharger, I'll be 60 miles down the road in that time. I forgot then there is the wait to maybe get your Tesla model 3- is it two years, three years, will it ever be built?

 

Get PV, and look around. You will see Model 3 on the roads.
Or be an ostrich. It is all the same to me.

 

I read that there is one person with a Model three who is touring the country to show the Tesla 3 to the people of various states, wonder when he will get to Santa Monica. There are viable electric cars out there, most being sold a a loss and as a second car for short trips it might be a fun toy, but good hybrids are here now and are viable all around useful cars that are eco friendly and affordable this is Prius Chat and a Prius is perhaps the best example of that.

 

Sounds like are talking about You You Xue. He did indeed travel around the country in his Model 3, but there are thousands more Model 3 running around California and about 1000 a week being added these days.

GET A CLUE

 

Why the hostility towards Tesla?
EVs work very well for some people. And more people will be buying plugin vehicles than hybrids within a couple years.
The Prius is a wonderful gas car. It seems you think wonderful electric cars make the Prius less wonderful? They don’t and I am not sure why you seem to feel threatened.

 

Take away the government rebates and plug in hybrids would be a tough sell, and pure electrics an even tougher sell.
Believe me the government will take away those rebates, sooner rather than later. As for Elon Musk, hard to tell whether he will be the next Jeff Bezos or the next Preston Tucker, right now the people who invest in Elon's dreams are either idiots or geniuses, the jury is still out.

 

Interesting opinion. The government rebates for Tesla are going away, those for GM will likely follow, and then Nissan.
I believe you are short changing plugin vehicles though. They appeal to a larger variety of people than many other cars. As we get past the early adopters, that market is, IMO, likely to grow even faster.
Time will tell who is right, but Tesla has passed many tests many people said they would never get to. I like their record.

 

I think its only those without a future, and are pessimistic, that would see such an alternative to fossilized vehicles, that has caused several deaths worldwide, that would wished for such a failure