Electric Cars and Gasoline Tax

no, but there probably aren't enough electric cars on the road yet. what should concern them is the improving efficiency of gassers. i wonder how much tax they (we) are losing on those?

 

Nothing wrong at all.
Fact is, quite a few states have already imposed either an EV fee, or hybrid & EV Fee.
IMO, these are illegal. What should be done is the total elimination of the gas tax. Then implement a fee/tax based on miles driven and vehicle weight, for all cars.

 

Eyes bigger than your garage, huh?

 

Our county in Colorado has had an extra $50/annual fee for plug-in vehicles for many years to offset the reduction in gas tax revenue. Since Toyota does not distinguish plug-in vs. non-plugin Prius from the VIN, we have to certify our car is one or the other when we register it. Now, they are floating a change to use miles-driven fees on top of gas tax to "penalize" high MPG cars that use the road system. While maybe a more fair approach, I see issues related to reporting your miles driven each year to the county when you renew your tags. Unless you are required to have your odometer inspected each year, I see a large possibility for fraud.

 

As far as I was aware, most gain schemes lend themselves to fraudulent abuse by the determined abuser.

 

Anything wrong? Well, you gotta look at how much gasoline was actually used in the USA last year. I am thinking we hit a record, or at least we came close. When we as laymen look to the future, we often neglect growth, if we are predicting less oil use. I am pretty sure Big Oil sees big growth in energy use for two reasons (1) World Pop going to 10 billion and (2) undeveloped world is developing rapidly.

So yes, It is imperative to become more efficient and reduce dependence on fossil fuels. But that still means fossil fuel use is growing to keep up with demand.

from RRapier.com
New Records Abound

In June, the Renewables 2017 Global Status Report and the 2017 BP Statistical Review of World Energy were both released. The reports showed new record consumption numbers for major renewables like wind and solar power, but also new records for oil and natural gas production. Global carbon dioxide emissions also reached a new record. The EIA also reported that despite record sales for electric vehicles, U.S. gasoline consumption reached a new all-time high.

 

I might agree if the true cost of driving a car borne by your community was limited to road building and maintenance (and everything that entails).

But that is not the case at all.

The external costs associated with producing and burning each gallon of gas — everything from subsidies to big oil to smog related healthcare expenditures to extra military costs — is so large that some of that is rightfully clawed back by a gas tax.

And please take note I didn’t even mention climate change.

Tax the gas, and give the EVs a pass!

 

If I remember correctly, we now pay a higher fee when plating our EV's & Hybrids due to the lower fuel consumption. But that's not what bothers me most. What bothers me is that in Indiana, our gas taxes go into the "General Fund". Which means the State of Indiana can use this money on whatever they deem necessary.

 

I see your point, however I don’t agree.
Driving an EV is an absolutely wonderful thing to do, however, EVs still cause damage to the roads, they should not get a free pass.
Second, the purpose of the gas tax is maintenance of the roads, not exteranlized costs.

What needs to be done is a carbon tax, not a gasoline tax. Tax all items based on the GHGs created in their production and transport.
Carbon Fee and Dividend Policy Is the one I like the most. It will cut co2 emissions quickly, create jobs and grow the economy. Conservatives should like it as it is a market driven solution.

Gasoline will be taxed by this, but not in isolation.

 

Do not forget about those large, heavy diesel tractor trailers that put a lot of miles and wear on the roads. I doubt they are paying their fair share now.

 

Interesting to look at the "new" I495 HOT lanes, I guess they are 5 years or so old now. They don't allow trucks - although you always see the odd truck getting on by accident (and getting pulled over by the cops). Anyways at night you can see how much tar repair they have put on the cracks in the road already. I wonder if they went cheap on construction due to no trucks, or if the truck damage is over-estimated.

 

Likely went cheap due to no trucks.
The roads and parking lots on our campus were primarily designed for cars. Now they have transit buses running, the roads, and some parking areas, have deteriorated rapidly die to initial cheap construction.

 

Re: Fuel Tax - One thing helpful is to know Toyota policy, which I basically agree with.

Toyota lobbies that fuel taxes should "technology neutral".
Technology neutral means all cars using 100% gasoline should get the same fuel tax strategy. It is unfair to tax (a few states do unfort) a 25MPG Highlander HEV extra tax just because the word "hybrid" is used, whereas other vehicles at 25 MPG are not taxed extra, let's say F150 which uses aluminum body to get better MPG. Why should it be taxable crime to use hybrid approach vs. other approach? It should not be.

Now then you come to Plug-ins, and now that is fundamentally different technology re: taxes using alternate fuel. So it is fair to paint plug-ins with a different brush than HEV hybrids. The solutions to that ranges from modest fee (Toyota is OK on that) to going to miles-used basis. As we can see just from this thread, there is a range of opinions on how to handle that.

 

One summer in the late 70s UK it was so hot there was a near drought in the south. Most southern motorways surfaced in asphalt became rutted from the constant pounding of heavy truck t y r e s in the nearside lanes. Once the temperature dropped back to normal by the Fall/Autumn, the wheel ruts had set hard and badly affected smaller vehicle steering. It took years and ££££ to fix the damage.

 

It was paid for by the heavy truck owners, correct?

 

Ya think??? Noooo, the flipping taxpayer picks up the tab!

 

That is false.

EVs under about 5000lbs do not cause any road damage (unless your talking dirt or gravel roads)

Gas cars under 5000lbs also do zero road damage, even on the most poorly constructed asphalt.

If there were no seasonal climate changes and vehicles over 5000 were banned, roads would last centuries.
In fact here in Oshkosh we have two rather poor roads that have never been repaved in a century.


Now if you want to tell me I should pay something for weathering of the road or that for the good of society I should subsidize freight transport
I would agree with you as that is factual.

What I might disagree with you on is how much my 1800lb car that doesn’t drive on the interstate should pay and also I firmly believe that all subsiding of freight over highways should be eliminated. (Just as the rails are not subsidized)

Having amazon deliver a package 5000 miles because 75% + of the cost is paid by somebody else is not in the good of society.

Mathematically Amazons business model would fail if semis weren’t subsidized and the true cost of freight was born on them.

Trains would also not be going under left and right if they didn’t have to compete with subsidized semi traffic, traveling on mostly tax payer bought roads with government subsidized fuel.

Many here seem to believe that diesels cause most of the pollution, if that is the case we need to do everything in our power to reduce fast, long distance, inefficient transport and move back to local sources or slow rail transport.

Shipping everything to you is usually inefficient unless major changes are made as to how that is done.
(But it would be easier to scrap and use what isn’t broke)