Why did you buy a plug in and not an electric car.

I think pure-electric vehicles should be adopted by society as a whole, but for the interim, they're most practical as work vehicles, specific applications, typically a fleet of some sort of city-owned vehicle, with a very regular shortish distance route, good plug-in infrastructure.

For typical private use, they're not that practical yet, and won't be, until charge times and range improve, a lot.

 

Oh yes it is. First you have to find a company that has a rental office near your house. Then you have to figure out if they are charging out-of-line rates or not based on comparisons to other companies (I've seen them be triple their competition at times). Then you have to figure out if you're allowed to leave your car in their lot while you drive their car instead of yours. Usually you aren't so you have to either bring someone with you to get the rental or get someone to give you a ride to the rental shop. Then you stand in line for anywhere from 5 minutes to a half hour to get your car. Then you get into a car you're unfamiliar with, have to figure out how to get the seat to fit right, adjust all the mirrors, figure out how to use the lights, cruise control and stereo system. If you want hands-free you need to get your cell phone attached to blue-tooth if the car even has that option.

Then you're driving around in a car that no-doubt gets terrible mileage compared to what you're used to (if you're like me and used to a Prius) and that lacks some of the options you want on a car (like blind spot monitoring and adaptive radar cruise control).

 

I currently live between 600 and 800 miles of children/grandchildren. So range is critical for me.

we're currently planning on moving to be more centrally located (within a 2 1/2 hour one-way commute) to each of the grandkids. Even with that reduced range I would have to find a place to recharge at the destination. Since that destination is likely to be one of my children's houses I would then have to charge up at their house. if I had a bev that means I would have to install chargers at each of their houses in order to be able to get enough range to go back home. that's untenable at this point. maybe in the future if all my kids have an ev charging station at or VERY close to their house it would be feasible, but for now a hybrid is the only viable solution.

 

You are SO on the Freaking money, my friend! Renting a car IS a PITA! What about all the insurance they try to jam down your throat! And dealing with the gas tank level, and how much is in the car now, and how much you have to leave the car with, and where do you buy the gas, etc etc.
It is a necessary evil when you need a BIG hauler van or truck, or it is useful if you want to try out a car you're thinking of buying. And of course there's that terrible rental car that you have to have because your poor car got hit in an accident!
The best thing about a rental car, is that it makes you appreciate your own car so much more!

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Yes, been in a few hurricanes. And if you have then you know you're waiting hours in the gas fill up line. If there's no power, there's no gas station pump either. Also every hurricane I've ever been in there has been a huge warning. If you *needed* to get out, you have a week to do so.

With an EV I'd say your better off. Everywhere is a refuelling station, not just the few gas stations that are open and price gouging. You have to pick one or the other.

I spend less time charging a BEV then I do filling up a gas car. Refuelling takes 10 seconds. Plug it in and go. Nobody sits in or by their car to charge.

First trip I took in my Prius was over 2k miles in 18 hours. I don't think that's normal driving. Car transport has also dropped way in the price. The last car we looked at on the East Coast it would take $400 to ship it in covered transport over 2500 miles. With $150 in gas assuming 50mpg, which is very favourable, disregarding the maintenance needs a journey like that takes plus the opportunity cost of the time, it's about $10/hr. If you make more than that, it's not worth your time.

Then you're doing it wrong. The hassle of booking takes a minute. Go on the website, put in where and when and bam a reservation. Show up on the lot drive away. Don't like the car they assign you, take any of the other ones in the area. Believe me, I'm picky with what cars I drive. I've only had one instance this year where I couldn't get a car I wanted. The car I got was nice enough and new but I didn't really want an American made minivan to drive around Toronto. But that's once in over 50 times just this year.

This weekend when I'm in KY, I just got an email that I'll be getting a brand new Mercedes sedan. $22 for a day and a half. Not $22/day, $22 for 36 hours. Pickup and drop-off at airports which means the fee is higher than normal.

Denver is basically the best airport in the US for exactly this. Direct flights everywhere. I've flown to Kansas City from Denver. Heck for the eclipse we took a plane JUST FOR THE ECLIPSE! Flew to St. Louis and back, spent about an our in STL on the turn around. Got to see the eclipse from 40k feet in the air, way above any clouds. On landing got to see it at perfect full eclipse. Plane travel is much easier and faster. We fly weekends all the time. Not possible in cars. It takes 18 hours to drive from here to Kentucky. This weekend I'm in Kentucky for 36 hours, I would get zero time actually there by driving. It would also cost me more to drive than fly.

Since you mention Denver, if that's your home airport them you have to be doing it wrong. Denver, while not my home city, is my home airport. From pulling up to the new Westin building to parking, checking a bag, going through security and taking the train to the gate, it's 12 minutes average. We routinely show up 45 minutes before the flight, check a bag (late) get to the gate before boarding which starts 30mins prior and are in the air in no time. Once you figure out how to fly, it's extremely easy. The trips we take, almost every weekend, aren't possible in a car. Also less danger of rogue planes in the air driving stupidly causing accidents. I'd invite you to look at prices next time. Airfare is the cheapest it has ever been. And even with a Prius, we often break even on direct costs while coming out way ahead factoring in time or even possibilities.

Yes. But then people will realize how little they're used. You charge at home and work. Not on a public charger.

Like I've said, I've been here done this. I've had these arguments with myself. I paid thousands extra for a charging port just for that reason. And really the only times it has been used has been for curiosity or a few times taking the car way far away on a road trip. Took the Leaf to have dinner in Wyoming with a friend. The wife needed to recharge more often than the car

 

And go where? You don't have a car, remember? What if where you're going is 2 miles away?

And you might be getting ripped off or booking through a place nowhere near your house. I don't book at DIA as that's 40 miles from my house. I book near my house.

The last time I did that I had my choice between a black Chevy Malibu or a red Chevy Malibu.

Did you stop at the Hutchinson Cosmosphere along the way?

Sound's awful. I spent three days in the Black Forest and then had a party at my friend's house which was directly in the eclipse path of totality.

I took pictures. Can't do that from a plane and airplane windows are horrible. I saw the eclipse through my 10x stabilized L-series binoculars. You saw it through a Coke bottle.

Only if you're are going farther than a 10 hour drive away and only to one destination.

Let's see, 40 mile drive taking 45 minutes if there's no traffic. Parking in the economy lots or in off-airport parking and taking a bus. If in the eco-lot it's about a half-mile walk to the security line. 5-30 minutes in line then on the train to terminal C. Usually a 10 minute walk down the terminal then wait for boarding. I'm not comfortable being late so I'm always there at least 45 minute before boarding time. Don't forget to get some food for the plane because they don't give you any. So, that's 45 minutes + 15 minutes + say 10 minutes at security + 10 minutes on the train + 10 minutes in the concourse + 45 minutes waiting for boarding + 30 minutes to board and leave the gate = 2:45 from my door to leaving the gate, minimum (3:30 is more common for me). Then you have to taxi + fly + taxi + deplane (2:30 to Kansas City), then rent a car (30 minutes minimum) then drive to my cousin's house (50 minutes because the KC airport is on the wrong side of the city). So that's another 3:50 (if nothing goes wrong like having to return to DIA because the flaps wouldn't go up and wait 3 hours for another plane, which happened to me a couple of years ago). That's 6:35 door-to-door at a cost of $1,500 ($1,200 for four plane tickets and $300 for a car). Or I can drive there in 9 hours using $30 worth of gasoline, not have to get naked at security or worry about packing my liquids in clear plastic 1-quart bags, not have to check baggage or pick it up, not have to unpack and re-pack the car at the two airports, not have to find spaces for my carry-ons, not have to deal with sitting squished between two 400 pounders (happened to me two years ago) and not have to deal with getting sick on the plane (happens about 90% of the time for at least one of us).

 

I just LOVE your post!!!! Thank you for taking the time!!!

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Try this. Here's the trip I'm planning for next summer.

• Depart north-west Denver metro area
• Visit Arches National Park
• Visit Bryce Canyon
• 3 Days in Las Vegas
• 3 Days in Los Angeles
• 4 Days in San Diego
• Over night in Flagstaff
• Visit the Grand Canyon
• Visit Page, AZ and go on the Glen Canyon Dam tour.
• Visit Mesa Verde National Park
• Visit Great Sand Dunes
• Return to origin

Figure out how to do that in a plane.

 

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing!!
This is definitely a case of, "Different strokes for different folks!"

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Humm,

• 2000 mi / 18 hours ~= 111 mph.

Bob Wilson

 

I'm sure it was on the autobahn!!

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If charging infrastructure keeps up. I'm a power electrical engineer. The difficulty in getting that level of power (not so much energy) to charge cars at that rate is not to be underestimated. To calibrate you, charging 4 cars at that sort of rate will use as much power as an entire Super Walmart including all of its air conditioners.

 

Maybe we're there, IF someone could figure out an efficient way to swap batteries. Similar to the growing trend to just swap pre-filled propane cylinders on a barbecue, vs getting "your" cylinder refilled.

 

Which begs the question:

• Why are you buying today's crappy batteries?

Our two, plug-in hybrids have just enough of today's crappy batteries to achieve their benefit in ~80% of the miles. Their gas engine backup means we can use all of the crappy battery capacity and seamlessly switch to gas ... as we do several times each month. Then there is the highway mileage, 40 MPG and 56 MPG, with block-to-block speeds of 65-75 mph. These flexible, efficient cars are sitting on our driveway, instantly available, 24x7 and both have dynamic cruise control and automatic collision avoidance braking.

• So turning the question on its head, why are BEV advocates so willing to live with the limitations of today's batteries?
• Why do they dismiss their dual ICE car ownership, lease, or rental?

In a decade or so, BEV cars may reach performance parity with our plug-in hybrids. They will be ready to join the used car market and get someone out of their gasser. But in the meanwhile, both are in the top list of BEV car efficiency with a built in, gasser range and affordable mileage.

Bob Wilson

 

There definitely seems to be a difference in lifestyle and expectations in this thread. That's OK...There isn't a right or wrong here...

If I want to visit NYC, I can hop in the car at the time of my choosing and be there in about 3 hours. It's about 180 miles so figure with my prime averaging 60 mpg, I can do a round-trip for about $15. But yes, I need another $40 for parking and if I pick the parking garage carefully, I might find one that allows me to charge...But they are usually more expensive.

I just checked travelocity and it wants me to spend $426 to fly to NYC (roundtrip). That doesn't count the hour drive in my prime to Logan airport, the $35 parking at the airport, the cab from JFK to downtown and back.

I guess I could take a rental car to the city but that would be $52/day so $104 instead of the $426 for airfare. BUT then I still need to get to the rental car place and I'll need to pay for substantially more gas than my prime consumes and still must pay for parking, etc. It's certainly doable but at 3-4x the cost.

I like to go visit NYC. We do it frequently. I also like to go skiing in VT, go visit the beaches on cape-cod, go shopping in southern Maine or visit upstate New-York in the summer. My weekend trips should would get expensive all for the pleasure of saying I have a BEV instead of a HEV. The BEV would sure need to be a lot less expensive at purchase to fund the several hundred dollars a month this different lifestyle would cost me.

Now when there is enough range to get me there and back or there happens to be available charging stations on the slopes of my favorite ski resorts (never seen one yet), it might be viable to have a BEV.

 

This has devolved. I'll answer then cut it out myself now that I am not on my phone! Been sitting waiting for a few hours, so needed something to do.

Go to where I just drove. Drive home, plug-in. Drive to work, plug-in. Drive to the movies, plug-in. Drive to the grocery store, plug-in.

Well you do have a car... So you could drive on your way. These places are everywhere. One (or more) of the companies will come to you and pick you up. I use Hertz, they don't do that. I have to go there. I don't shop around to save 3 pennies. Hertz doesn't do pre-rental or post-rental vehicle inspections. Everything is bookable online. Just a valid ID and credit card. DIA is actually one of the few places I haven't rented a car since that's usually where I am parking my car!

Routinely I pay less than $20, including rental rate, taxes, and fees for the weekend for a Friday evening to Sunday night rental. I just choose the "managers special" which can be anything. Then when you get there, choose what you want.

Funny enough, the Malibu is one of the cars I refuse. I hate the headrests in the rear. People complain about Prius visibility, have they ever been in a Malibu! I've had them 3 times, and after that I no longer get in one. I have to take the headrests out.

The choices are usually quite good. The only time I had that kind of choice was on St. Thomas. I could choose between some Jeep Wranglers or Toyota Rav-4's. That's it. The only vehicles they carried. But it came in almost every colour!

Nope. Been to the air and space museums in Texas, Ohio, and DC, and Palm Springs. Have driven past the airplane graveyard in Az, that's on my list of places to spend some time in.

But I have been to Hutchinson and went to the salt mines. If you haven't been I recommend it. It was the nicest mine I have ever been in. Never seen a mine with drywall before. Very different than the nickel mines in Sudbury, ON.

Saw it from the ground in Polynesia years earlier (also can't drive there). But the plane was fun too. It was a dedicated solar eclipse flight, one of 4 Southwest was doing. They gave out glasses, free drinks, and the pilots made announcements and maneuvers to get great views. We took great pictures from the plane. You can't zoom in as much because of the vibrations, but a good lens and camera and you get a good photo. But we were there to look at it, not photograph it. You will always find a better picture online then you could have taken yourself, unless you are a world class photographer. The airplane windows were just fine. When it was still quite bright, the lenses picked up the triple pane if you didn't focus properly. But also saw it in totality on the ground.

I've flown COS to DEN before to pick up some PCBs. The manufacturer is right on Tower Rd, and they were nice enough to meet me at the airport. But just puddle hopper to DEN, picked up the boards, and got back on the next flight back to COS. Time is money.

My 100+ flights per year, says that's not how it is for most people that fly. Remember the once a year flyer don't make up the majority of flyers. Getting there a few minutes before boarding is not late, it is arriving precisely on time. This past year in over 100 flights (I think I am at 117 for the year) I have had 2 delays, really 1 delay and 1 cancellation that was rebooked immediately and therefore delayed. The first was because in SDF the de-icing takes forever and they had a light frost which sent the entire state into a panic. Delayed about a half hour. The cancellation was a YYZ-DTW-DEN flight leg on the way back. DTW was having weather so Delta re-routed us through MSP. It took us about an hour longer to get back then expected. But that gave us time in MSP to go to the lounge for some free drinks and food, which was actually quite nice.

Instead of combining all that stuff into one trip a year from now, we do all that stuff all the time. We take 1-2 1-week to 2-week vacations a year. But those are much further away. Hard to do Asia in a weekend from Denver. Been to Ireland over the weekend, but that was stretching it .In February, spent over a week in Mauritius.

Been to Arches. Been to Bryce Cannon. Been to Vegas many times. A couple times just for dinner and back. Been to San Diego many times. Been to Flagstaff, but generally go North of Tuscon 2-3 times a year (Dove Mountain). Been to the Grand Canyon. Been to Lake Powell, I guess I was in Page? Done Mesa Verda. Done the Sand Dunes.

The Gandikota was nicer than the Grand Canyon. Also not possible to drive to. If you're into star-gazing it is hard to beat Jaislamer. Rode a camel a few hours into sand dunes, cooked under the stars, and you can see everything. Can't drive there. But to be fair, can't fly there either. That took flights, trains, rickshaws, and camels to get to. But totally worth it.

To my point though, this is the perfect time for a rental. You know in advance when and where you are going. You're picking up and dropping off at the same place. This is the perfect rental scenario.

Yep, sounds about right!

Rounding on both time and distance. Distance was 1760 miles according to Google. Time had 3 divisions since there were some detours for food plus 2 hours for time zone changes. Not really fair to count the "going to dinner" time and back, so rounded down. But yes, trip was 85mph-95mph across the country. Can't do that in a Leaf!

 

First of all, I'm still waiting to find my first charger at my actual destination. I have one at home and at work. I sometimes stop at places to charge to 10-15 minutes.

Second, I was talking about on road trips. I was recently in Las Vegas NM where the Tesla Supercharger was 2 miles from the restaurant we ate at.

I must be because I have the best picture I've seen of it. Maybe because I took it and processed it the way I wanted it.

Not really possible with kids in school and working full-time. Besides, doing each trip separately would be prohibitively expensive for a family of 4 (meaning we wouldn't go at all). Our last family of four trip on a plane to one location cost about $6,500 for two weeks. But we visited 7 places in the Midwest for two weeks for under $2,000.

Did you fly to each one separately? Where did you fly in to get to Sand Dunes?

My kids have never been to any of them yet.

I really don't like leaving the country. My passport expired about 2006 after our last out-of-country trip.

 

Only if the Leaf is in a tornado!!

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I have changed my preferred grocery store and movie theatre because they have L2 destination charging. Not because I need a charge, but because I like to support things I believe in. That's the only reason I have a Leaf, or a Prius for that matter. It doesn't cost me any extra time, and the chain brands are the same. Just different directions.

But at work I just use my L1 plugged into the street lamp.

Yeah, I don't advocate for 100% EV. I think Tesla is doing it right by making a Supercharger infrastructure along the interstate corridor, but I am still going to take or rent a gasser for road trips. And that's OK.

There are enough nerds on here, you should share the photo! I love the halo effect images, not interested in dedicating a day to taking the shot when it will just show up on the news. I want to see it with my (filtered) eyes as it happens, look at someone else's photo for memory sake

I've got a full-time 9-5 job plus run 8 of my own businesses, and you'd be surprised how much you can get done. And if you like to spend an extra hour or two at the airport to not be late, that's perfect "get your homework done or you won't have any fun in NYC" time. For a family of 4, driving will be cheaper if you don't assign value to your time or frustration.

They were all separate trips. I've been to the Sand Dunes quite a few times. It's one of those things when people visit us in Colorado, that's a place to go.

I have flown close to the dunes to go to the dunes, but not most of the time. Boutique Air (out of DIA) has a direct flight to Alamosa for about $100/pp round trip. There's a Hertz rental in Alamosa, then its a half hour to the dunes.

But generally in CO, we drive. Going down to Rye to see Bishop's Castle and then the loop to the Dunes is a full day trip, usually in the RX450h. Again, I don't advocate for 100% EV all the time. But those trips are much rarer. In your case, one a year pre-planned way in the future. For example I looked this up on Hertz for you renting in Denver. For a 2 week rental in the summer of next year $600-$700. In my case, I would rent the $320.88 option. With President's Circle status, that would be upgraded to Intermediate class. Then I can choose basically anything on the lot for no fee difference. For 2 weeks! AAA says the cost per mile is about $0.736/mi which includes $0.10/mi for gas. So lets say $0.60/mi, for your 2500mi trip and that's $1500 of "wear and tear" on your car. Even renting a $700 vehicle, you pocket $800. Saving your vehicle in maintenance, depreciation, etc. Your $700 also buys you a new car for that period, road-side assistance, and at any of the points on your journey, you can trade it in for something new/different if you want.

And I think that's the difference. I even have a NEXUS card so I can get in and out of the country without waiting in any immigration lines lol. Heck, my doctor is in a different country. There was a period last year where I was in Toronto almost every weekend for a good part of the year. With DEN having direct flights to CUN (Cancun), the Riviera Maya has become a great weekend relaxation spot.

On a different note, I can't wait for Hyperloops everywhere! Or really Star-Trek style transporters. Come on future, hurry up!