1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Discharged 12V Battery

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by mr88cet, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,906
    16,213
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    One nice thing about the Prius is that, after a jump start, recharging the battery doesn't really require driving around like your granddad's car did. The Prius 12 volt battery is getting charged at the same rate any time the car is in READY, whether you're driving around, idling, or just sitting there in READY with the engine stopped.

    -Chap
     
    mr88cet and Prodigyplace like this.
  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    OK, that’s also a reasonable point. However, I also wanted to juice up the big battery a bit too, and sitting around in ready mode, from what I’ve seen at least, only maintains it at minimum.

    iPhone ? Pro
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    You know what you need for Christmas, or Boxing Day...
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Also, I couldn’t leave it on inside the garage, since the engine will smoke up the garage, and if I left it outside, on, somebody could steal it. Well, anyway, just FWIW...

    iPhone ? Pro
     
  5. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Are you thinking new charger or new battery?

    iPhone ? Pro
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    There's likely both in your near future, but yeah: charger, a 4~5 amp smart charger. Hook them up and right from the get-go they assess and should determine if the battery's even viable. If yes, it goes into a multi-stage charging regimen, will automatically taper off at the end, and can be left on indefinitely, if you need, say for an idle car.
     
  7. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,801
    11,362
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    XLE
  8. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I’m continuing to charge it up with my ho-hum charger, when I’m at the house and able to check on it periodically (it should be perfectly safe to charge on its own, but prefer to be able to periodically monitor it).

    Anyway, it’s now past what the ammeter calls 100%, which is less than “Full [charge].” As I recall, it started at a little below what it called 75%. I’m *guessing* that the % rating refers to the voltage drop across it, 100% being 12V, but still not fully-charged. If so, then it started discharged to 9V or so.


    iPad ? Pro
     
    #28 mr88cet, Dec 23, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Good info/thoughts. Thanks.

    In my particular case, I kinda doubt I’ll ever really have to do this again, or if so, very rarely, so I’m a little reluctant to buy a super-special device for charging 12V batteries.


    iPad ? Pro
     
    Prodigyplace likes this.
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Ours spends half it's life on that pictured charger, but we're very low usage, and I'm obsessive...

    IMG_8073.JPG
    (right now)
     
    #30 Mendel Leisk, Dec 23, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
    Raytheeagle, m.wynn and Prodigyplace like this.
  11. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    7,855
    3,967
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I believe your understanding of percentage SoC as it related to voltage may be a bit off. This chart gives an idea:
    Pb:A voltage band (SoC).jpg
    The top line relates to advanced Lead/Acid chemistry such as the AGM used in the Prius (if it is original equipment). The bottom line more closely resembles regular flooded lead/Acid, which is probably for what your charger is designed. For a Prius battery, you can see from this that 0% is ~11.6 V; 50% is 12.35 V; 75% is 12.7 V; and 100% 13.2 V. In relation to your charger 75% would be ~12.38 V and 100% would be ~12.8 V. In order to raise the voltage to 100% potential, the charger has to use a voltage higher than 100%, typically 14.0 - 14.4 V (depending on type of battery), so when a battery is just taken off the charger it has a voltage that is more than 100%. This is called surface charge and will dissipate over about 2 hours to the natural full state voltage of which the battery is capable. On a good battery you would want to see in the region of 12.9 or better.

    If your battery is truly only showing 12 V after reaching 100% charge, then either the charger is faulty or your battery is. If it truly was 9 V when you started, your battery is toast and you are on borrowed time. A voltmeter across the battery would eliminate the need for guessing.

    That depends on you pattern of use of the Prius. If it sits for days without use, it would be diligent to use a maintenance charger all the time the car is not in use. With a "quick connect pigtail" installed it takes only a few seconds to connect/disconnect the charger.

    Anyway, I provide the above for your information, your millage may vary.
     
    mr88cet likes this.
  12. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Yes, definitely.

    We put it to sleep temporarily while my wife studies up to get her Learners Permit. That, in her case, is mostly about improving her English so that she can read those materials. Anyway, she has finished those now, so we’ll start using this Prius for driver training soon. It should stay in normal use after that.

    Thanks for the information on interpreting the %charge numbers. Interesting!


    iPhone ? Pro
     
    m.wynn likes this.
  13. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,817
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    lol
     
    m.wynn likes this.
  14. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    What’s really going to be ... “challenging” ... is teaching her in Mandarin (mostly)! Hopefully we’ll still be married after that!

    iPhone ? Pro
     
    jerrymildred and Raytheeagle like this.
  15. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Probably most people here won’t get this, but here’s one scenario that comes to mind:

    Me: 停车!停车!停车!
    Car smashes into a parked car...
    Me: 你为什么没有停车?!
    My wife:你说的是“听车;没听见什么东西”!

    Hint: If you google-translate it, pay attention to the pronunciations.

    iPad ? Pro
     
  16. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Back to this conversation. The 2009’s 12V discharged again.

    I plugged it in to recharge it, and something “interesting” happened that didn’t happen before: the horn beeps briefly about once per second.

    I poked around a bit but I can’t seem to find anything about that on the WWW or YouTube...
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Still with the "ho-hum" charger?

    First step would be to assess it's viability, either DIY with something like Solar BA5, or remove it from the car and run it down to an automotive retailer (Pep Boys for example), and have them test it.

    Or: how old is it now? If it's getting on, maybe just go directly to replacement?
     
    mr88cet likes this.
  18. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Thanks for the reply.

    Referring to the charger (replacing it), I presume (i.e., as opposed to the car)?

    I can replace the charger.

    Do you know what the honking means, though?

    More details: the ammeter on the charger doesn’t deflect much when I plug it in, but it does drop down quite a lot with each short honk of the horn.
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring

    No sorry, I was thinking of the battery.

    Do you at least have a digital multimeter? See what the voltage is reading? It might be artifically high, raised by the charging. The expression is "surface charge". Turning on the headlights for a couple of minutes will help to clear that, pull the battery back to realistic voltage.

    I know I'm harping, but you need:

    1. A smart charger, 4 amp range, one that assesses the battery when you hook it up, will actually "bail" if it's a lost cause. If it's ok with the battery, it'll then proceed into a charging session, going through various stages.

    2. At the least a voltmeter, so you can get some idea where you battery's at. Or much better, an electronic load tester, say Solar BA5 or similar. Barring that, get the battery to either a dealership (the visit will likely cost) or an automotive retailer selling batteries. Nowadays they should have a pro-level equivalent of the BA5, but you'd want to phone and check. It's good policy for them to have such a tester: it allows them to demonstrate the condition of your battery, AND the batteries they're selling.

    Really not sure, but an ailing battery is known to cause odd behaviours in the car.
     
    mr88cet likes this.
  20. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Thanks again for the great thoughts!

    It’s almost certainly not overcharged, since it didn’t even respond to the key fob.

    So lessee... the voltage at the fuse box under the hood reads 1.78V.

    I’ll see about getting a better charger. Possibly disconnect and charge the battery directly.