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Upgrading existing "dedicated" 220V Circuit for EVSE.

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by Diemaster, Dec 20, 2017.

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  1. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

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    So I already have a dedicated 220V outlet in the garage. My dad had it put in for a arc welder but never bought one. It's a 10-30p on a 30A breaker like this. I want to upgrade it to a 14-50p since most EVSE's have this plug on them already. i do not want to hard wire it. I know i will have to upgrade the breaker to a 50A. pic of the current breaker attached. Can I swap it out to 2 50A paired breakers next to each other? please tell me i dont have to swap out the wiring.

    Or should i just get an electrician?
     

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    #1 Diemaster, Dec 20, 2017
  2. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

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    There’s a saying from my military days: “If there’s doubt, there’s no doubt”. Basically meaning if someone has any doubts, then don’t do it :)

    I think the wire gauge, plug and breaker all work together. You wouldn’t put a 50A receptacle on 30A wiring.

    You might look at Clipper Creek EVSEs. They sell a series of 24A units that would work great on a 30A circuit. I repurposed a 30A Electric dryer circuit for my Clipper Creak unit. I used an electrician because I had a few “doubts” of my abilities. Besides, when I had the EVSE installed two years ago for my previous BEV, there were Federal and Oregon tax credits for charging stations.
     
    #2 CraigM, Dec 21, 2017
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  3. NR427

    NR427 Member

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    There are lots of EVSEs that come with the 10-30 plug on them. I would just buy one of those and be done. Swapping out breakers when you are not sure of the wiring is a good way to start a fire.
     
    #3 NR427, Dec 21, 2017
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  4. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Even if local codes do not require a licensed electrician to install and an independent Underwriters Laboratory (UL) inspection to certify, your insurer may.
     
    #4 Air_Boss, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  5. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Simple, figure out what gauge the 30A existing wire is, I would guess it's at least a 10 Gauge is in there, when I got the Leaf, all my wiring is in conduit, so I just pulled the 10 Gauge out, replaced it with 8 Gauge, perfect for a 40A 6.6kW quick charge the Leaf wanted... L1, L2 Ground, I threw in a Neutral as well, although my EVSE did not require one.
     
    #5 KK6PD, Dec 21, 2017
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Sorry, but I must tell you that if it is wired for merely 30 amps, then you must swap out the wiring with some rated for the higher current.

    If you are fortunate, dad may have used upsized wire. But you won't know without looking.

    The fire inspectors and insurance adjusters will be able to determine the wire gauge in the ashes of your garage.
     
    #6 fuzzy1, Dec 21, 2017
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why not just set it up for your prime, and worry about the 50 amps when you need it? the wiring is the hardest part.
     
    #7 bisco, Dec 21, 2017
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    amazon.com/Ebusbar-EBB_220_16_NM10_30-Level-potable-charger/dp/B076C6B76K.

    is a 16 Amp charger
     
    #8 JimboPalmer, Dec 21, 2017
  9. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

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    Upon more research i found this: (my work has a clippercreek EVSE so their the first brand i looked into.)

    EV Charging Station Plug Warning: NEMA 10-30 has no Ground

    "Additionally, when charging an electric vehicle the ground is passed through to the vehicle from the station for safety earth grounding during charging. If a neutral is used instead of a ground the neutral could generate a charge on the vehicle chassis, creating a potential safety hazard upon contact with the vehicle during or after charging."
     
    #9 Diemaster, Dec 22, 2017
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    This is normal for nearly everything. A neutral is not a substitute for a ground.

    Did your dad's wiring include a ground wire from the breaker panel to the outlet? If not, that is another blow to your wish to not rewire.
     
    #10 fuzzy1, Dec 22, 2017
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  11. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

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    Bosco, (Seinfeld ^.^) i was going to "just set up for my prime" but if i do this i can list on my house "EVSE Electric car ready." and increase the resale value of the house a little. that and i like to future-proof things like this.

    Fuzzy, i will take the outlet apart tomorrow and find out what i have to work with wire wise. (and wire gauge) i was just trying to do most of the work myself. but as said above. i dont want my house to burn down .......again.
     
    #11 Diemaster, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
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  12. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

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    Well i took the outlet out. the wire was 10AWG and YES! There was a white neutral wire unused. So i bought a 14-50 plug and swaped out the 10-30. Since the breaker is still 30A i should be ok with any charger rated for 20A or lower, including the prime's 16A rating. so all i need to do now is find a EVSE with 14-50 plug (more common than 10-30), buy it for myself for Christmas, install, and be good to go.
     
    #12 Diemaster, Dec 23, 2017
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  13. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

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    Again, I’m not an electrician but I think the 14-50 MIGHT be an electrical code violation on a 30 amp circuit? Might not seem a problem as long as you own the house, but think what might happen if a new owner sees the 14-50, thinks it’s a 50A circuit, and plugs in a 40 amp device into the 30 amp circuit. Yes, the breaker should open, but...

    Again, I’m no electrician!
     
    #13 CraigM, Dec 23, 2017
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  14. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    ...
    ...or good way to die also?
     
    #14 Dxta, Dec 23, 2017
  15. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    ...
    ...or good way to die also?
     
    #15 Dxta, Dec 23, 2017
  16. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    You are just funny! Ashes of his garage?:D
     
    #16 Dxta, Dec 23, 2017
  17. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

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    my house already burned down years ago in the "old" fire (oct. 2003). ive been down that road. it's not fun. thank god i had AAA.

    this is why im trying to to be safe but also use what i got.
     
    #17 Diemaster, Dec 23, 2017
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  18. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Wao! So sorry dude.
     
    #18 Dxta, Dec 23, 2017
  19. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    Verify that the Neutral wire is connected back at the panel rather than being disconnected on both ends.
     
    #19 Prodigyplace, Dec 23, 2017
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  20. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

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    i did. it was already attached in the main panel. i didn't see any that weren't and i get 120v on both hots using the white and ground so im confident it's wired correctly.
     
    #20 Diemaster, Dec 23, 2017
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