Featured Tesla is Going Out of Business, says former GM Vice Chairman.

Bob Lutz Finally Has His Corvette ZR1-Powered Fisker
New and Used Car Reviews, Car News and Prices | Car and Driver
It seems that the fiskette - Maximum bob Fiskerenstein - can be compared to a PHEV that works.

The i8 looks better, handles better, accelerates better, ... etc. The destino - well its a monument to failure of fisker motors, and Lutz's ego to shoehorn an american v8 into a heavy phev, and remove the guts. I believe this is anouther attempt to have a tiny volume sports car. Its stable mate, also designed by fisker but this time taking parts from a viper instead of a corvette, seems to perform much better, but again, not much of a point in either car.

VLF Force 1 V10 Roadster revealed at 2017 Shanghai auto show

Compare Side-by-Side


0-60 times with roll out

4.9 - Tesla model 3 long range (bev)
3.9 - Destino (fisker karma with a corvette engine)
3.8 - Bmw i8 (phev)
3.1 - Porsche Panamera S e-hybrid (phev)
2.4 - Tesla model S P100D (bev)
1.9 - Tesla roadster - (proposed, currently in prototype form with 200 kwh battery)

I believe bob lutz's VL motors will soon close its doors. There still is a market for such cars, but their goal of selling 100 destinos, or tens of thousands phev trucks, just won't happen. The phev and bev models just are better in just about every way.

 

you put the Tesla Model S as a PHEV

 

oops. corrected.

 

Considering Lutz is so close to being one foot in the grave, & likes to shove a V8 into everything, it might be time to introduce him to his very last ride.



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ahem - cough cough

Tesla Model S P100D Does 0–60 MPH In Record 2.275507139 Seconds (Motor Trend) | CleanTechnica

someone upped the 0-60mph antie just a bit -
baahh whats a couple car lengths...
when your world record's quickest sedan blasts off at that kind of acceleration - make sure you & all your passengers are wearing their Tesla neck brace.



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Uh-oh, this latest announcement does not bode well for Bob Klutz's predictions.
Anheuser-Busch Orders 40 Tesla Semi Trucks - WSJ

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Maybe Tesla can use some of AB's reservation money to fund my refund. (Yeah, I know, snowball's chance in Hell.)

I'm surprised that any Fortune 500 company would be stupid enough to give Tesla an unsecured loan at 0% given their track record. The only way I see that it makes sense is to book the payment to "environmental advertising". However, there is no proof that AB or any of these other companies actually sent any cash to Tesla.

 

right! it's another one of those conspiracies like the moon landing - acted out on a sound stage.
Ryder, JB Hunt, DHL, Walmart, Amazon, & now - a beer company & others? .... very fishy. Unless I see the cashier's check, it didn't happen.
Even Jalopnik dot com is in on it now - one of their lead stories !

 

Companies put down payments on big ticket items all the time. Let's say using electric trucks adds $0.0001 in cost to each case of beer, but AB truck drivers get to sit in quieter more comfortable cabs, and the company doesn't spew diesel pollution into polluted cities. Does that add value to AB stake holders? You bet it does. My guess is after government incentives AB actually spends less on these trucks than the diesels they run today.

Anheuser-Busch orders 40 Tesla electric trucks | Business | stltoday.com

Seems like this is a good move by the company, not that I drink their beer, or electric trucks would make me drink it ;-) I do drink other beers from inbev. Full discloser - I've consulted to AB before, so it may be a biased positive comment based on me recieving funds from them

Sorry that the model 3 is delayed enough for you to want your deposit back. I hope you get it soon. Tesla has the cash, but they are paying deposits back slowly. It is IMHO a bad business practice, unlike raising capital by taking deposits, but I expect that if I ask for mine back, it will be delayed too. I still expect a model 3 for me, and one for my brother next year, but that depends on how fast they fix manufacturing problems. They appear to have sent out the second set of invites to configure, but most to california where they can recognize revenue in december.

 

What is the order number?

Bob Wilson

 

My order number? Don't remember. I'm sure I can log in and get it. I put in deposits the first day, but priority is to friends of tesla, then California, then tesla owners outside california, then ... me. Which should be first quarter if I elect the long range pack. They estimate sometime Feb-April 2018 for my ordier, if I want the smaller pack (which I do), but if there are continued manufacturing problems, they may force the $9000 larger pack. I think they will get it worked out though.

Jim N is the one that has asked for his deposit back. Tesla is being slow returning them.

 

My question is not because I'm shopping for any BEV but pointing out that if someone wants their deposit back, offer it on the free market.

Tesla may not support an independent market of deposits but since when has that stopped anyone?

Let us assume you have a deposit with number 7,831, well we could write a contract that let's me get the car immediately after you configure it to my requirements and take possession of the title on day 1. Yes, there are potential tax credits and other associated costs BUT these can be negotiate to make a fair deal for both parties independent of Tesla.

The sad thing is for say a 10% 'handling fee', Tesla could easily gain an addition income revenue from a 'deposit market.'

Bob Wilson

 

I've got the reservation number written down somewhere but can't find it right now. The reservation was placed on the first day and has been removed from my account so I can't track the refund through their website. Reservations are transferable to a degree.

Could I take someone with me to the local Tesla store to configure a Model 3 and pay the deposit using my reservation? Probably.

Can I go to the local store, configure a Model 3 to "Uncle Bob's" specs and have it delivered to AL? Probably not.

Multiple reservations were able to be created at the start. Those that were found to be in excess of two per person were cancelled and refunded rather quickly.

Running a secondary market for reservations probably isn't worth the effort & PR nightmare.

We did have a club member that offered to facilitate the purchase of a LEAF for those who couldn't claim the full tax credit. As far as I know, nobody accepted his offer.

Austin, you know AB better than I do. (I know nothing about how they operate.) I do not dispute that electric delivery trucks have some advantages. I doubt that Tesla can achieve the numbers Elon presented. Does the exec responsible for initiating the purchase order believe every salesman pitching a product? Does he believe Elon or doesn't it matter? In 2019 will AB have electric trucks delivering beer? Maybe. If so, they won't be from Tesla.

 

It is only 887 miles from Atlantic City to Huntsville AL ... piece of cake because the route is lined with SuperChargers, right? <GRINS>

Then my Mom in Coffeyville KS or an aunt or uncle in Stillwater OK needs me and there is this SuperCharger route problem. Instead of 700 miles, we're looking at 1,100 miles trying to stretch from charger-to-charger.

Bob Wilson

 

Bob, why don't you fly? Is your time that unimportant or unvaluable? I drive in the 300 mile range or maybe a bit more if I have relatives or dear friends I want to see on the way. But if time is of the essence or even just for convenience I fly and rent when I get there. As an example, a few years ago we flew up to NH on SWAL using prehistoric folks fares and then rented a car for a couple of weeks around NE and the Maritimes. The cost difference was trivial and we started the trip rested.

 

Out of pocket expense for Prius Prime:

• 700 mi / 56 MPG = 12.5 gallons regular, 25 gallons total
• 25 * $2.20 ~= $55 gas cost
• 700 mi / 55 mph (block time) = ~13 hours, each way (Google map says 10 hours)

Same for the BMW i3-REx:

• 700 mi / 40 MPG = 17.5 gallons premium/plus, 35 gallons total
• 35 * $2.40 ~= $84 gas cost
• 700 mi / 52 mph (block time) = ~13.5 hours, each way (Google map says 10 hours)

Now I'm retired and there will be extra time and care for my wife and her dogs. My wife is home bound and I am her primary care giver. So either car can carry her folding wheel chair, clothes, and toiletries. FYI, we've already done the trip in the BMW i3-REx and it takes ~20 hours. The Prius Prime will do it much faster due to fewer fuel stops.

Now if we fly from Huntsville, we'll have at least one transfer. Sure, we can put her dogs in a kennel but they aren't free. Then there is the logistics of getting my wife off one plane to the second one and dealing with her maladies.

The second option is to drive two hours to Nashville to catch a direct flight to Tulsa. Then drive another hour and half from Tulsa to either Coffeyville or Stillwater along with the terminal delays and loading/unloading the rental, round it up to two hours. So this approach means 4 hours ground travel each way plus 3 hours flight time, a total of 7 hours. Google Map claims it is ~10 hour drive.

We know driving direct is 20 hours and substantially cheaper than airline tickets and car rental. Furthermore, I can bring and have access to the supplies needed to keep my wife safe and happy. If we drive like Google Maps suggest, the 20 hours become 10-11 hours. But females and critters have other demands on our time.

Both of our cars have dynamic cruise control which significantly offloads my driving task. It also means significant flexibility to deal with my wife's needs and dogs without the limitations of terminals and aircraft.

Bob Wilson

 

Did you ever "expand" the gas tank of your i3? I remember your talking about it a while back.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

I believe he changed the software but is waiting for the warranty to expire before adding a second tank.

 

Good thing he's in 'Bama ... it' d be a long wait in a CARB state - 10yrs or 150k miles
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I think you need to think risk reward when it comes to investing in this type of technology. In this case the risk is very low, but using renewable energy is a corporate value. That makes the reward fairly large if they can actually move most of their trucks to renewable-electrification and have them operate at the same cost as their current fleet. AB Inbev is a global corporation headquartered in Belgium, with renewables important to many of the governments they deal with.

I'm sure this was a corporate decision based in US headquarters but encouraged by corporate. This is a large deposit, probably $1.2M for the 40 trucks (2 founders series, with payments of another $4.9M. I guess you could say the $1.2M is at risk if tesla goes bankrupt, but it probably is only $95K, the amount of interest AB Inbev would pay on bonds of that deposit amount for 3 years, until it got its money back from tesla if tesla fails to make good enough trucks. For a corporation that made a $1.5B profit last quarter, $95K is really a rounding error. All my numbers are guestimates based on public announcements of price and deposits.

Now to answer your questions. Tesla has consistently beat range and acceleration goals of its cars. I don't think anyone when the model 3 was announced thought it would be $45K for a 310 mile version that could go 0-60 in 4.9 seconds. Everyone was guessing more money and less acceleration. What they have been consistently bad on is meeting schedules and initial quality. AB is initially going to use these trucks on routes that require about 200 miles per day. Tesla is predicting ranges of 300 miles and 500 miles per day of the trucks. The motors used will be the same ones in the model 3, so by the time the truck comes out the motors and controllers should be bullet proof. The cells should be the the ones in the model 3, or improved cells. Again that is low risk technology. So yes, IMHO they probably do believe they can get fast charging 300 mile range trucks. On the date, I doubt they believe it, and I don't believe it either. AB Inbev's timeline for renewable goal is 2025. They are probably good if they get the trucks, and they come with good autopilot software in 2022 instead of 2019. Then they have time to test and spread the technology throughout the corporation. Simply investing in the deposits makes it more likely other companies will work on safety software for trucks and electrification. I don't think AB Inbev cares if it gets its trucks from tesla or another company. They just want the technology.

These deposits are simply bets on the technology, and they are low risk, high reward for the companies doing it. AB Inbev is still acquiring brands, and good relations with governments means less risks of anti-trust suits. There is a shortage of truck drivers. If these new electric trucks are nicer for the drivers, and cost less to operate by 2025 (battery prices are falling, oil prices will be up by then) then the corporation wins, and the its nice for the planet too ;-)

First "they" said there was no market for electric trucks. Now the market is fairly well proven, the question is how well execution is done. There are different semi truck markets. BEV is not ready for long haul, but it appears that within 5 years, it will be being used in these shorter haul applications.