Featured Toyota Prius Prime Will Likely Be The First Plug-in Hybrid To Outsell Chevy Volt

PiP might have done it if given the chance.

 

would have been interesting, especially if the prime's price reduction could have been implemented.

 

Toyota didn't really want the PiP to sell well ;-) It would have threatened their fuel cell story. The fuel cell story doesn't make sense anymore, so they may as well improve their game. If you look world wide the prime drastically outsells the volt, but in the US they are neck and neck. Bolt sales appear to be canabalizing the volt, and voltec is begging to be put in another vehicle that is more desirable ;-)

On the prime, IMHO the biggest problem is in the car design, otherwise it would sell even better. They can fix this in a next release. Really Ford and BMW have camry sized phevs, a camry wagon design (yes I know waggons don't sell) that was phev only, could really push the envelope. Make it the next gen system for the RAV4/Lex NX hybrid with AWD - plus the prime's battery pack and management for a more powerful electronic acceleration (cap it at maybe 5 seconds and you can resolve the heat/discharge problems).

If toyota really does have solid state batteries ready in a car in 2022 - big batteried phevs will greatly outsell non-plug-in hybrids. My guess is its more like 10 years than 5, but today's batteries are good enough, and batteries in 5 years will be better.

 

And next year...

Tesla sells more electric vehicles than any other car manufacturer in the U.S., but the Chevy Bolt is snapping at its heels. The Boltdominated electric vehicle sales in October, selling over twice as many cars as the Tesla Model S, according to Inside EVs

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/cars/2017/11/the-chevrolet-bolt-was-octobers-best-selling-ev-could-it-be-2017s/%3famp=1

So the question is will the Prime outsell the Bolt + Volt next year?

Chevy is getting close to Tesla’s BEV metrics.

Or will Toyo offer more electrified cars to dethrone Chevies overall plug in sales?

 

The Prime design problem apparently prevents it from being sold in Mountain, Dixie, and Midwest regions:

Actually it is part of a massive, Toyota designed test to identify the exceptionally high IQ owners who live in these regions . . . all three of us.

Bob Wilson

 

GM opted not to export the Volt to as many markets with the gen2. With tariffs, the gen1 had a tough time in them.

 

I see 3 design problems -

1. Exterior looks are polarizing not to be good but probably to be different. The leaf has even more of this problem ;-)
2. Forgot it was a phev competing with the volt and i3- they should have given it more electronic acceleration in hybrid power mode and should allow driver to choose how strong the regen is on the brakes
3. Interior design choices - Its a dated interior that really needs to look and feel more like 2018. Toyota knows how to do this right in their lexus division, I'm not sure why they didn't do it here (and am confused why they made it a 2+2 instead of keeping the regular prius's rear bench seat).

None of these really would increase cost much.

I do agree that low inventory and dealer training are bigger issues. They can fix those even without touching the design. Number 2 and 3 can be fixed in a new model year refresh. The prime has a good value proposition, and really if they do a little improvement on the interior and add a different electronic personality, the exterior looks won't really hurt it much.

People don't need to worry about competiton from the model 3, as they are probably sold out for all new orders through 2018 ;-) Model S and X look to sell about 100,000 world wide this year, but sales in the US always are down in the first month of a new quarter and up in the last one, as Tesla manages its US versus international shipments.

In the US bolt + volt should outsell prime, but the prime is also sold in more countries, and prime should outsell them world wide. In 2019, I think tesla will have manufacturing problems behind them. Bolt and Leaf sales will likely be low in the US once that happens. If Toyota does a good refresh of the prime and good dealer training, I would expect it to easily outsell bolt+volt in 2019.

We will see how fuel cells are doing in 2019. 2020 is tokyo olympics, and its either going to be a coming out party for the fcv or a nail in its coffin. My guess is toyota is doing a lot of phev designs but they won't come out for at least 3 years.

 

It means Toyota did a decent job giving plug-in advocates what they wanted, which is a bigger battery than PiP.

I was happy with PiP, but I am thinking CARB was not giving mandated ZEV credits to PiP. Prime can be lower cost due to need for Toyota to sell it to get ZEV credits, and also to qualify for free HOV. There were a lot of folks upset PiP was allowed on HOV...by going with "industry standard" 8 kw battery like everyone else, Prime is no longer subject to criticism for being not big enough battery.

PiP (and I guess all plug-ins before 2016) will be out of HOV lanes in a year, I am thinking with the new Ca. law. That will further stimulate sales if you want to keep the green HOV sticker in Ca. after 4 years, you will need a new plug-in (if I understand...we have not discussed this new law much here).

 

Will Toyota Prius Prime outsell Chevy Volt this year?

 

The "design problem" seems to be more an artificial scarcity problem to me. If people don't know about the Prime, how can they make an informed decision on whether or not they'd like to buy one? Not everyone's going to come here and ask questions.

As for me, the Volt and Bolt may be good vehicles, but they look boring and they're more expensive than either regular Prius or Prime. I wouldn't feel comfortable spending that much for a GM, it's not a quality brand.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

The additional tax credit amount brings the Volt closer to the price of a Prime, and I'm sure you find a better deal on one too.

 

uh hugh .... ok .... Yeah that's not a stretch, too say a compact / relatively moderate price car is in the same category as 7 seater that can go 0 to 60mph in under 3 seconds. Good thing that "claim" came out prior to the model 3 ramping up. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad car. We might have considered one, had I been able to fild up & pry my 6'-5" carcass into the backseat.

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is prime still a compliance car? i heard that they have started selling them in texas.

 

Searching the 2 local toyota dealers from here. There is one sold prime on a lot, and no other inventory. Which means availability is crappy, but you can order one but probably can't test drive one.

I don't think its a compliance car, but they don't seem to want to try at all to sell them in texas. Given the state will knock $2500 off the price of a prime, but won't for a tesla, because of lobbying from two big toyota dealers (the dealership rule) its puzzling that toyota doesn't make the car more available in Austin. My guess is availability is not any better in other cities in texas.

 

iirc - part of the formula dealerships use to acquire their vehicles is, the more a dealership historically sells of some types of vehicles, the more they can get/order, especially if a model is supply constrained. Maybe that's why Texas is in short supply? ....

 

My seat-of-pants observation in greater Vancouver: 4th gen Prius (just the regular hatchback Prius) are about neck-and-neck with Volts (any generation).

 

There's 1 new Advanced at Toyota of Dallas ("call for price", makes me think they're lying), 14 used 2017's at CarMax in Laurel, MD. They claim all are free of flood damage

There are 2 new and 3 CPO in Chicago. That's a little better, but not much.

Come on, Toyota! People need to see these cars so they can buy them. Salespeople need to be trained in the advantages and disadvantages of hybrids and plug-ins so people understand which is right for them.

I believe that more people would buy these vehicles if they understood more about them, especially cost of maintenance.

LG-H918 using PriusChat mobile app

 

i still think they would prefer to sell them in carb states, because they are not profitable.

 

Neither was the Prius, at one time. Eventually all of the R&D is amortized though.
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