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Featured Dashboard summary October 2017

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2017.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Another excellent summary by Jeff Cobb's team: http://www.hybridcars.com/october-2017-dashboard/

    model 10/15/17 09/15/17 08/15/17 07/15/17
    1 Fusion Hybrid 5087 6326 4623 2191
    2 RAV4 5012 5759 5128 4695
    3 Prius Liftback 4532 5722 6043 6034
    4 Transit Diesel 3602 4741 3560 1299
    5 Bolt EV 2781 2632 2107 1971
    6 Niro Hybrid 1935 2554 2677 2763
    7 Camry Hybrid 1897 2090 1284 1290
    8 Accord Hybrid 1832 2278 2162 2007
    9 Ram Pickup Diesel 1712 1137 390
    10 Prius Prime 1626 1899 1820 1645
    11 Volt 1362 1453 1445 1518
    12 Highlander Hybrid 1266 1500 1419 1528
    13 Model S 1100 4500 2100 1500
    14 C-Max Hybrid 1092 820 1009 995
    15 Colorado Diesel 956 832 750 1021
    16 Model X 900 3400 1700 1400
    17 Prius C 900 937 853 868
    18 Ioniq Hybrid 870 1101 1093 1209
    19 Fusion Energi 741 763 762 703
    20 Optima Hybrid 705 396 294 265
    21 RX 400 / 450 h 675 835 852 806
    22 i3 667 538 504 601
    23 Prius V 652 728 835 837
    24 5-Series Plug in 596 511 345 343
    25 C-Max Energi 569 683 705 844
    26 Sonata 523 866 762 739
    27 MKZ 405 435 548 435
    28 Avalon Hybrid 375 398 425 411
    29 ES Hybrid 355 424 636 598
    30 X5 329 333 317 463
    31 3-Series Plug in 307 329 409 387
    32 Canyon Diesel 304 356 304 301
    33 Rogue Hybrid 303
    34 Malibu Hybrid 300 499 301 274
    35 X5 Diesel 257 366 302 245
    36 Mirai 249 184 70 82
    37 500e 240 305 234 257
    38 Optima Plug In 235 228 182 130
    39 Leaf 213 1055 1154 1283
    40 Soul EV 210 255 300 145
    41 Cruze Diesel 207 260 268 132
    42 MDX Hybrid 203 239 217 251
    43 e-Golf 203 187 317 308
    44 NX Hybrid 190 189 237 282
    45 Range Rover Sport 187 268 218 228
    46 XC90 Plug In 174 236 265 174
    47 Pacifica 152 450 400 125
    48 Model 3 150 120 70 30
    49 Range Rover 144 183 135 158
    50 XF 143 154 42 36
    51 3-Series Diesel 138 153 148 118
    52 Sierra Hybrid 135 2992 3128
    53 Golf Sportwagon Diesel 129 75 129 308
    54 Focus EV 115 131 131 148
    55 Sonata Plug In 110 175 200 200
    56 F-Pace 109 126 164 213
    57 Passat Diesel 103 184 135 236
    58 XC60 Plug In 100 97 65
    59 NSX Hybrid 87 26 21 30
    60 Range Rover Velar 84 60 22
    61 Cayenne S E-Hybrid 73 124 178 160
    62 forTwo EV 73 123 94 0
    63 XE 70 79 117 127
    64 Terrain Diesel 64 24
    65 B-Class Electric 59 87 58 81
    66 Jetta Diesel 58 45 83 161
    67 Countryman Plug In 56 80 86 75
    68 7-Series Plug in 55 43 39 80
    69 C350We Plug-in Hybrid 49 126 212 112
    70 Lacrosse Hybrid 44 4 5 0
    71 Clarity BEV 34 52 0 34
    72 i8 33 27 29 55
    73 Ioniq EV 28 36 66 43
    74 Golf Diesel 28 16 31 73
    75 S90 Plug In 28
    76 CT6 27 27 23 22
    77 Promaster Van Diesel 26 36 46 30
    78 RLX Hybrid 26 18 13 10
    79 CR-Z 18 27 26 50
    80 A3 Plug In 17 85 129 218
    81 S550 Plug In 16 35 32 124
    82 LC 500h 15 16 15 6
    83 Beetle Diesel 11 19 31 35
    84 CT200h 10 91 204 442
    85 GLE 550e Hybrid 8 14 23 27
    86 A3 Diesel 5 9 21 18
    87 Q70 Hybrid 4 5 4 4
    88 GL-Class Diesel 3 3 3 6
    89 Tucson 3 3 0 1
    90 Civic Hybrid 2 2 0 2
    91 ML Class Diesel 2 1 2 1
    92 Panamera S E-Hybrid 2 1 1 0
    93 GLE-Class Diesel 1 2 0 1
    94 Jetta Hybrid 1 1 6 4
    95 Q50 Hybrid 0 33 25 26
    96 Clarity 0 14 57 82
    97 GS 450h 0 5 3 3
    98 XV Crosstrek Hybrid 0 3 2 0
    99 GLK Class Diesel 0 3 0 0
    100 E-Class Diesel 0 1 1 2
    101 ELR 0 0 1 2


    [​IMG]
    • SUV-style hybrids are doing well
    • ELR - discontinued, it may be a bargain if any can be found.

    Personal note

    A former Prius owner, Gen-1 and Gen-3, I'm sorry to see such low numbers. But for the 2016 Prius Two ECO not having TSS-P, I might have skipped the used, 2014 BMW i3-REx. The BMW has an optically based, TSS P equivalent not perfect but good enough. Unexpected, the plug-in was obviously more affordable than gas. Still, the 2014 was a first model year and had infantile problems.

    A failed motor mount bolt on the BMW meant I had to revert to our Gen-3 and it put me off. I had grown used to the BMW version of TSS P. But the $4.5k tax credit on the 2017 Prius Prime Plus made it very affordable along with the plug-in savings.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2017
    Tideland Prius and telmo744 like this.
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    As I mentioned elsewhere, plain hybrid sales are sensitive to gas prices, and those have been low. Traditional car sales have been slow, with most buyers opting for a crossover or SUV. Most of the available hybrids are cars, and the SUV hybrids doing better.

    An ELR might be neat because it does have some of Cadillac's advanced technology(magnetic suspension), but it is based on the gen1 Volt. Another plus to the ELR was the paddles for controlling regen amount, but those are available on the gen2 Volt now. You could likely get the gen2 for less even if you could find an ELR.

    From what I read, the ICE side in the main source of issues for the i3. Get the BEV if you want to not have all the joys of BMW ownership.:)
     
    #2 Trollbait, Nov 3, 2017
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Various trips that are impractical in most BEV only cars unless you have time to wait for a charge:
    • 463 miles pickup - from Charlotte NC to Huntsville AL via 2800 ft, I-40 pass.
    • 700 miles each way - 2016 Labor Day holiday Huntsville AL to Stillwater OK and back.
    • 334 miles round trip - Huntsville AL, Spring City TN, and back for eclipse
    • 234 mile round trip - Huntsville AL to Nashville TN and back
    The motor mount bolt repair is impressive:
    Why the BMW i3-REx | Page 17 | PriusChat

    I actually have a better BMW now ... kinda like getting a Prius traction battery replaced with better modules.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #3 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I like the idea behind the i3 REx with the proper European coding, and I like the car itself, but being a BMW has always given me pause.
     
    #4 Trollbait, Nov 3, 2017
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why is accord hybrid below camry hybrid? never mind, i see they are not in sales order. what order are they in? ah, this months sales, thanks.
    now i know why prime rebate is up.
    gotta wonder how long c will be around.
     
    #5 bisco, Nov 3, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Upon further reflection, the Camry went through a recent model upgrade.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2017
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, but sales are probably mostly left over 17's.
     
    #7 bisco, Nov 3, 2017
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The real loser is the Hyundai Ioniq. If it came to conquer the Prius, well I suspect the timing could not have been worse. For example, I know of at least one 2016 Prius hatchback that by a circuitous route became a 2017 Prius Prime.

    The only Ioniq plug-in is a BEV and that does not compete with the Prius Prime. No disrespect for those who chose to go BEV but BEV doesn't work for many of us who live in 'fly-over' states.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #8 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2017
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    when is the ionic plug in hybrid arriving?

    kudos to the bolt, btw.
     
    #9 bisco, Nov 3, 2017
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I wonder if the Bolt sales were responsible for a significant reduction in Tesla ZEV credits.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #10 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2017
  11. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    “Real” price is a big issue. MSRP gets tossed around a lot when comparing cars, but is close to useless and there are better alternatives.

    Like going to a department store, MSRP is a joke. Everything is always on sale or on clearance, so that is the real price. Toyota continues to offer significantly deeper discounts on the lift back. For any doubters, check out truecar.com. It certainly holds up in my neck of the woods.



    Hyundai still claims this fall. That only gives them max 5-6 more weeks.
     
    #11 iplug, Nov 3, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Prius c will likely be replaced by the new Yaris hybrid, though it is possible it will retain the c name here. I think Toyota already announced the Yaris replacing the Aqua. The real question is what will become of the Prius v.

    A new Accord is also coming, but it further from market than the new Camry.
     
    #12 Trollbait, Nov 4, 2017
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there's a thread on the new v with spy shots i think.
     
    #13 bisco, Nov 4, 2017
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was curious to compare hybrid and plug-in hybrids with +45 MPG and user reported mileage:
    Compare Side-by-Side
    1. 2017 Prius Prime - 110.8 MPG (44-314 MPG)
    2. 2017 Hyundai Ioniq - 56.3 MPG
    3. 2017 Toyota Prius - 59.8 MPG (57-64 MPG)
    4. 2017 Kia Nro - 53.0 MPG (47-61 MPG)
    All four show up in the top 20 graph but not in this MPG order. Curious, the Ford Fusion is not on this list yet a top seller and not in a SUV style vehicle.

    I then used Car Gurus to search inventory within 500 miles of Huntsville AL / New York:
    1. 2017 Prius Prime - 12 / 1614
    2. 2017 Hyundai Ioniq - 549 / 460
    3. 2017 Toyota Prius - 1219 / 1206
    4. 2017 Kia Niro - 894 / 1570
    These inventory counts suggest:
    • Ioniq has a supply problem
    • Prius Prime has a severe Dixie problem
    Bob Wilson
     
    #14 bwilson4web, Nov 4, 2017
  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Worldwide sales of Prime for 2017 through September: 39,369

    That's very encouraging, especially with availability here so limited still.

    Seeing a boom to come... following the real-world driving data we provide about Winter efficiency... is realistic. There's always a "wait & see" mindset from people wanting to know how the first year plays out.
     
    #15 john1701a, Nov 4, 2017
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Ugh, is there any tracking site that accounts for the electricity use of a PHEV? I know a Volt specific one does, but it might only work with OnStar data.

    Hyundai has had a rough year in general. They have a car heavy line up in a market that wants crossovers. Which lead to a major shake up of the the USA branch's management.

    Sounds like Southeast Toyota wants nothing to do with the Prime.
     
    #16 Trollbait, Nov 4, 2017
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  17. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Or SET's customers aren't in love with the Prius. Living in NC and driving through in rural red ares and urban blue areas, I see the customer preferences clearly reflected in what I see on the road. I see fewer Primes than v wagons. Oddly for these statistics, I see more Hyundai sedans that the stats would suggest. I suspect many are off lease cars.
     
    #17 mikefocke, Nov 4, 2017
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  18. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I don't think anyone cares about tracking electricity use of phevs. Those that hate plug-ins don't want the data, because it would make their argument look worse. Those that like them, know its more about ratio of electric miles to total miles, and gallons per year of gasoline used ;-)

    California because it is taxing and subsidizing plug-ins and fuel cell vehicles has a number of studies within the state. The big one is at UC-Davis, but full data won't be reported until 2019. Here is the interim report.
    https://phev.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/25.-Advanced-Plug-in-Electric-Vehicle-Travel-and-Charging-Behavior-Interim-Report-.pdf

    There really did seem to be too small a battery in the prius phv and leaf from this result for california, but .. the prime has a bigger battery that should do better. As the electrical efficiency increases a physically smaller and less expensive battery can be used for a given range. The value proposition of the prime is very high, but dealer attitudes and regional inventory may be holding it back.

    The tesla model 3 and 2018 camry hybrid should provide a spurt of growth to the efficient car market next year versus this year.
     
    #18 austingreen, Nov 4, 2017
  19. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Doubtful. Tesla sees an annual trend where 3rd and 4th quarter have significantly reduced ZEV credits.
     
    #19 Zythryn, Nov 4, 2017
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Interesting, I wondering why those buying ZEV credits would by them early in the year? Do they trim back towards the end of the year as the actual sales come in?

    Are ZEV credits a floating market value that might shift over a year?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #20 bwilson4web, Nov 4, 2017
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