Featured Model 3 has 310 mile range

Umm, can't one buy a Model S for less? A much nicer car, I think. Free market is great, though. There is a sucker born every minute.

 

Seems like the 310 mile Model 3 claim is actually an "undersell" by Tesla;
Tesla could be underselling Model 3’s range and charging capacity, reveals EPA document | Electrek

This Revelation begs the question, why would Tesla want to have the model 3 de-rated. Speculation, but how about the fact that their cheap car would then have a greater range capability than there 2 pricier models. Can you imagine the Model 3 range once they start selling the dual motor? The same article also mentions the model 3 capability of charging much quicker. Couple that with Musk already touting a quicker supercharger being in the works, those 2 notions make their pricier tier models less of a bargain than many feel they already are.
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A quick Google search led me to find that the Model S 90D EPA highway range is 303 miles. My friend who has one of those just drove it from Denver to Detroit and back (during this last summer). He told me he never achieved a reported range above 240 miles and never drove it more than 200 miles before charging to preserve a minimum 40 mile range buffer. I suspect the difference is speed - he told me he drove between 75 and 80 the entire trip.

Could something like that be Tesla's thinking here?

 

I wouldn't think the lower range due to 80mph speeds would be part of the EPA cycle when they rate cars.

 

Right...that's exactly what I'm saying.

EPA says it has a range of 335 miles on their highway cycle.
Tesla thinks US drivers drive faster than the EPA cycle when on a road trip, so they choose to artificially reduce the EPA reported range based on that thinking.

Then, you drive in a heavy crosswind and/or winter and your range is further reduced.

I'm thinking Tesla is trying to get their slow-moving customers to be pleasantly surprised with more range than reported, their average customers to get the reported range, and the customers who are driving in noticeably degraded conditions (wind or cold) to get reduced range, as they should expect.

In other words, maybe they want to claim only something close to the average, rather than what they perceive EPA's cycle to be, namely more of a "best case".

 

The dash tells you how far it will go ;-) The epa highway rating is 318 miles, but that is probably with the stock aero 18" wheels (not the 19" upgrade) and at about 65 mph. In normal mixed driving a tesla driver should exceed the combined range of 335 miles, but range in a bev is about long highway trips. What if its cold? Rainy? Wind blowing strong against you? snowing? or you are going 75 mph instead of 65 mph. The car or the calculator on the tesla site will tell you but its going to be less than 310 miles.

There have been customer complaints with the model S. Tesla is just trying to be upfront about it in the buying process. Maybe they should say 300 miles, but then ... it doesn't look like they get that much more than the bolt ;-) even though they do in the real world.

 

CAN they underreport?
I thought the sticker could only repeat the EPA number.

 

The sticker can not exceed the numbers from the test, but sure they can put whatever lower numbers they want on the sticker. Other automakers already heat tesla (except for mercedes that made lots of money on the stock, and learned a number of things), so they politically can't ask the range on the sticker to be calculated differently.

One of the political charges leveled at the prius before, and the tesla now is it really doesn't get the mileage they advertise. With the prius they changed the test. With the tesla, well they are lowering the numbers a little to get close.

 

They also want a range gap between the Model 3 and S.

 

There actually is a gap in hwy - 337.2 miles for the S 100D, 318 for the model 3 long range (80.5 kwh for now) on the epa. I expect that if they make a D and not just a PD for the model 3, the D will be 334 highway, and they will make it say 325 on the sticker ;-) I don't think they care that they can get close to the range of a 100 kwh pack in a S out of a 80.5kwh pack in a 3, what they don't want to do is have people waiting for over a year for a model 3 if they can sell them a 75D sooner.

They are testing a dual motor (or is it a performance dual motor) right now. They want the line to operate right with the single motor first. They will likely keep the 0-60 of the P model above 3.2 seconds so that they can continue to sell the model S P model for its acceleration. I don't expect people will be able to get a dual motor model 3 until the summer or fall.

One other trickle piece of news. It appears right now the biggest bottle neck for the model 3 is again panasonic as it was in the model S. Panasonic mentioned this in their report yesterday. The good news? The cells are now being made at the gigafactory, and panasonic says it knows the problem. This makes it much faster to ramp up, then the S which required negotiating through bureaucracies and shipping delays. We should know more tomorrow night when tesla reports. People are expecting to hear the October deliveries will be around 1500 cars, about a month later than musk predicted. He was camping on the roof of the gigafactory to not spend time driving to a hotel, getting little sleep to work directly on the problem. Not a good thing, micromanaging to this extent, but he is Musk, and 2018 production may require hands on with partners, and big shipments so that money can be raised for factory improvements at lower rates.

 

I think that is the primary reason. If you look at the EPA testing data for the Model 3 compared to the best EPA testing data for the Model S, you can see that in actual testing, the P100D Model S drove 414.45 miles in the city test and 469.99 miles in the highway test and the long range Model 3 drove 495.11 miles in the city test and 454.64 miles in the highway test. Now, I realize those raw numbers get modified to provide official range, but the percentage differences between them remain statistically useful.

This means that practically, the long-range Model 3 has a 19.5% longer range in the city and only a 3.3% shorter range on the highway than the P100D Model S. If we use the EPA's 55% city and 45% highway method to combine the ranges, the long-range Model 3 ends up with a 9.24% greater combined range than the Model S P100D! I'm sure nobody at Tesla wants people knowing that their $44-60k car can go further on a charge than their $70-140k car can go, hence why they reduced the listed range on the Model 3.

edit: I just found the Model S 100D raw EPA range data, and it drove 449.76 miles in the city test and 455.37 miles in the highway test. That means the long range Model 3 is Tesla's longest-range vehicle by approximately 5.5% combined.

 

are they shipping any yet?

 

Is there a spare tire?

 

nope

 

I may be old school, but I think this trend sucks. I do not want to be at mercy of some service or other just because of a flat tire. I know, I haven't used mine in like over 15 years, but then I hit an exposed corner of a manhole cover and blew a tire. I was driving people home from a movie and it would have been terrible to be at a mercy of a towing company. I just threw that doughnut on and kept on going with a 10 minute delay. Next day I drove down to my favorite tire shop and got it taken care of. At my will. That was the first use of the doughnut since I bought the car in 1998, but boy, was I glad to have it!

 

“Any”? Yes.
As many as they were hoping to? No, not yet
Quarterly results are being reported tomorrow.
I am hoping this will shed some light on the speed of the production ramp.

 

thanks z!

 

you can always add your own - and several folk do;



w/ a choice of front/rear trunks, there's room for either full size or doughnut spare, front trunk size turning on weather the car is AWD versus rear wheel drive. Just because manufacturers don't include things doesn't mean you can't have it.

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