What is the Future of Prius v (yet again for people, it is a lowercase v for the Prius v wagon)

I hauled my entire family and all our stuff for two weeks for 3000 miles across the Midwest in our Mazda5 last June.

 

I think what the past few posts in this thread shows is that there is no one perfect vehicle or perfect type of vehicle for all people and for people in various stages in their lives. People simply have different needs which is why so many types of vehicles are available.

 

Well said...

 

And, if you need a larger vehicle for the very occasional trip, you don't have to buy to that size, just rent the darn thing. At the difference between mini-van's MPG and the v's MPG, you have $363 in gas savings to pay for the rental for the once a year trip. And you don't have to drive that huge (yea, had a Grand Caravan for 110k miles) thing around except on that trip.

 

On my fourth year with a Prius plus, the seven-seater European version. It is a great car in many respects but I bought it as a fuel-efficient family car. It has some very problematic limitations that hurts its sale here in Europe. First, it lacks adequate boot space for more than 5 people. Second it lacks good winter equipment. It handles snowy conditions very bad in terms of traction. Also, it lacks heated front windshield and vipers, as well as headlamp washing. This makes half of the year a pain with constantly stopping to clean the headlamps manually. Third, it lacks towing capability which, at least here in Sweden, is almost a mandatory condition for a normal car. The failure to make it into a real crossover with AWD and towing together with adequate boot space for seven people makes it sell very poorly here. I think Toyota needs to rethink their strategy and become up to date with what the market demands.

 

But then there are those like me who have no interest in a single thing you cite as priorities. All they would do is drive up my cost. When I need 7 passengers or significant boot (trunk) space once a year, I rent what we call a mini-van. When it snows once a year, I stay home. It will melt by tomorrow. I tow nothing.

As a car maker, you choose your market and make the endless trade-off between features and costs.. It fits some people's needs/wants, and not so for others. Not that your needs/wants aren't as you stated and maybe their marketing has calculated the loss of sales due to lack of features and factored that in versus the added sales that lower costs will bring.

I certainly saw a few Prius wagons in Stockholm when I was there last year.

(Will they sell the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid in Europe? 4WD, 7 passenger, boot space, hybrid, tows. Doubt if it is snow/ice equipped as you described though. And not the miles per litre either. Trade-offs.)

 

I usually keep my cars about 5 years and have been thinking about what I would buy to replace my 2013 Prius v when the time comes. Although I haven't seen (in person) or driven the Kia Niro, it looks like it might be an decent alternative. From the specs at fueleconomy.gov, the Niro gets better fuel economy, has a little more passenger space but less cargo room. Is this on any other v owners radar?

 

the kia niro front grill takes some real getting used to.. also didn't help that I saw a brown colored one which just looked like a roll of turd with its mouth open driving down the road.

I fully understand this not a review of the car but my personal ascetic preferences.

 

Toyota makes that vehicle, the Hybrid Highlander.

(excuse US measures and US specs)
13.8 cubic feet of cargo area with all seat up, 83.7 with seats down
AWD
In the US, we only get windshied wiper de-icers and heated rear view mirrors
3500 lbs towing

 

My guess is that the Highlander Hybrid's ~25-26 miles per US gallon (or 9.0-9.4 l/100 km) or so (based on Fuelly, for all years of the 3.5 V6 setup, so the 2017 might do better) isn't going to do well with the European market, when the Prius v gets more like 39-43 mpUSg (or 5.5-6.0 l/100 km).

Although, you can get the Highlander Hybrid's powertrain in a 2-row (not 3-row) crossover in Europe, the Lexus RX 450h. Looks like the newer ones are hitting ~27 miles per US gallon, or 8.7 l/100 km, so the new engine might help a touch.

 

Right, he wants AWD, and towing capacity, and 3 row seating with abundant cargo room, but all those thing cost MPG.

If he gets all he wants in a v, the rest of us will see lower mileage. I know in part, because I use my v as a cargo van and it shows in my Fuelly numbers.

 

Buuuuut... I don't think the Highlander would help much in some of the issues, either.

Here's how much room an Australian-market 7-seater Prius v has behind the third row:



And, here's how much room a Highlander Hybrid has behind the third row:



That's not much better, especially if you're actually trying to carry cargo for seven.

Length doesn't actually hurt fuel economy much - what's added in weight can be made up for in aerodynamics - and length is what's needed to improve cargo capacity.

As far as towing capacity, the Gen 3 powertrain (which, the Prius a/v/+ is basically a long wheelbase Gen 3) has never been rated to tow... but the Gen 4 powertrain is rated to tow in Europe, now - up to 725 kg. (And, the Gen 4 is available in Japan with E-Four, so the Gen 4 platform can do it.) And, if that's not enough capacity, the current 2.5 liter hybrid powertrain is rated to tow 1650 kg in the RAV4, and that's old tech.

Really, something like a next-generation Estima with the next-gen Camry Hybrid powertrain, and E-Four (which is standard on the current Estima Hybrid), could probably do this, and the current Estima (which is using the old 2.4 liter Camry Hybrid powertrain up front, not even the current one) has more cargo space than either the Highlander or the 7-seat Prius a/v/+:



With the way that Europeans tow, it'd have plenty of towing capacity, E-Four can be made available, and a 2.5 liter powertrain would be a lot more efficient than a 3.5 liter.

 

Prius+ 200 liters after 3rd row Models of Prius+ | Specifications | Toyota Europe

I can't find the cargo area for the Highlander in Europe, or the Kluger in Australia, but the conversion from US 13.8 cubic feet is 391 liters, so almost twice as much.

 

US cargo figures are extremely inaccurate...

Toyota Australia's claiming 195 liters for the Kluger with the 3rd row up: Toyota Kluger features interior design luggage space

For comparison, they claim 180 litres in the 3-row Prius v: Prius v: a family Prius for the Prius family

Edit: And Toyota New Zealand says 269 liters, (and per their glossary, using the VDA method, to the top of the seat backs), for the Highlander, behind the third row: Highlander AWD Limited Specifications - Toyota NZ And, they say 200 liters for the three-row Prius v: Prius v Prius v Specifications - Toyota NZ

 

The Prius+ was originally marketed in Europe as capable of towing small trailers such as those for small sailboats and jet skis. The exact same "tow bar" that was formerly designated for trailer towing is now designated only for use with a bicycle carrier: http://www.toyota-tech.eu/aimuploads/5b7dcb23-1c3e-4554-a0bf-a5e8bc21b9f2/Prius_Plus_SABH_Bracket_PZ408_G5690_00AIM_002_431_3.pdf

The trailer wiring harness for the Prius+ is still listed on the Toyota Europe service website as "Towing hitch wiring kit" but the PDF document itself has been changed to "Stand alone bicycle holder wiring kit": http://www.toyota-tech.eu/aimuploads/cb06a87a-c8a7-4a74-8ea0-03d0ae20a118/Prius%2b_SABH_WH_PZ457-G5560-00_AIM%20002%20488-0.pdf

Toyota Europe websites formerly showed the Prius+ towing small trailers. Funny how the towing equipment for the Prius+ magically changed overnight into components for carrying bicycles.

 

I am amazed you found a Toyota that listed cargo spaces for both cars, AU had no numbers on their specification page for either the V or the Kluger, Toyota Europe had the + but not the Highlander. (the names change by market it seems very harder to search on +)
So 180 liters in AU, 200 liters in EU, and no data in US as we don't get 7 passenger versions for the Prius Alpha. Ah well.

 

Toyota Europe doesn't get the Highlander at all, it's a class of vehicle that doesn't work in Europe outside of the luxury class (and, the similar (but only two-row) Lexus RX is available in Europe), because fuel is far too expensive.

 

I love my Prius v but am really hoping Toyota will expand the Prius Prime to a Prius v Prime in a year or two!!

 

shucks! just took my Prius v in for routine maintenance and learned from my service rep that Toyota is discontinuing the "v" (and the "c"), so henceforth, it seems there will only be the Prius and Prius Prime?! What a shame; the rep said the closest substitute would be the RAV 4 Hybrid--but at about 10 mpg less efficient the "v"!)

 

^^^
Let's all rush to believe what somebody at the dealer says they heard.