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Featured GM announces future technology

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I totally see why Shell would gladly cough up dough, for ev infrastructure. Shell oil company gets more electricity used via electric cars, so, you gotta spin more natural gas fired - electric generating turbines! Mystery solved.
    Shell oil is a major sponsor of Jeremy Clarkson's top gear. Clarkson told so many lies in order to bash the original Tesla Roadster, it was hard to keep track of all his stories;


    If Shell oil were ever able to successfully bash / lie / slam / FUD EV's out of existence then shell wins - because no EV sales would mean more gas/diesel car sales. But .... that show was a nember of years ago, so it's likely Shell has 'seen the light'.
    So, even if EV's take off .... now Shell oil wins via selling more & more of their deeply depressed price / fracked natural gas .... and more fracked gas selling - helps bring natural gas prices out of the toilet. Smart.
    'Skewzz me?

    [​IMG]

    Gas stations? Not too much ... but refuling stations?
    oh yea ...
    ;)
    Bob - you're too funny . . . . . . only thing is, most here are too young to remember ANY version of that song, some versions going back over 7 decades.
    so, to bring the lion's share in on the gag, here's a modern version;


    .
     
    #21 hill, Oct 7, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    dang - double post slow servers again. mod's please delete.
     
    #22 hill, Oct 7, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  3. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Sanford NC to Butler PA in one 11 hour drive. Then to Mercer PA, Grove City PA, Tarentum PA, Beckley WV then back to Sanford NC.

    I saw no road signs for charging and no charging stations along the way. No motel-located stations that I was staying at were noted. No chargers located right next to the food stops we made.

    I did see 2 Model S Teslas, no other EVs that I recognized.

    Much of the return PA to NC trip was within the rains from the most recent hurricane with rain sheeting sideways even under a gas station's canopy. Gasing up never took more than a pee stop's time. Looking for a fuel stop never took more than a glance up at a road side price sign highly elevated and located at ~50% of the interchanges. Miss one and another would be along in 10 minutes. Time between fill-ups could be 400+ miles if desired. Time was frequently of the essence.

    Gas was $2.799 to $2.049 on the same day.

    It is the infrastructure that makes it difficult for me to own a EV as, if I were to spend as much as a Model S for the comfort of a long road trip similar infrastructure, range and refuel time would have to be there from day one and not involve me interacting with my nav screen (see posting above of danger of too complex an interaction with the screen.) Even if it is by voice and not by finger, it distracts.

    My real world experience (though not all will agree or share). This isn't a cherry picked trip but a real one just completed today. I go through similar thought processes about 3 times a year for my untypical trips.

    I want an EV for the fun difference but it won't fit in the family needs unless I can get my wife to replace her only 51k miles in 6+ years sedan with a SUV so we have the comfort and utility somewhere in the family. Then "my car" can be limited to commuter duty, home charging and 200 miles + range will do for that.

    YMMV
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    • Google Map estimates ~1120 miles, 18 h 22 min.
    • Using 488 mile range for Prius v and a usable 75% ~= 370 miles (to 1/4 tank remaining)
    • 1120 / 370 ~= 3 fill-up @12 minutes per ~ 36 min.
    • Block-to-block speed (assuming 70 mph on highway) ~= 1120 / 19 hr ~= 59 mph including fuel stops
    Since I own both a Prius Prime, L2 @16A, and BMW i3-REx, DC ~400V @100A we could 'project' an all EV and gas trip:
    • Google Map estimates ~1120 miles, 18 h 22 min.
    • Using 72 mile EV range for BMW i3-REx and a usable 75% ~= 54 miles (to 25% SOC remaining) which CARB rules is the same BMW i3-REx. NOTE: the Prius Prime charge rate is too low to make a cross country drive possible.
    • 1120 / 370 ~= 21 recharges @30 minutes per charge, 10 h 30 min.
      • 21 refueling @7 minutes per 2 gal tank, 2 h 45 min.
    • Block-to-block speed (assuming 70 mph on highway) ~= 1120 / 29 hr ~= 39 mph EV including recharging
      • 1120 / 20 hr ~= 56 mph gas including refueling
    Assumed Sanford NC electrical rate ~$0.07/kWh:
    • BMW i3-REx on EV ~= $2.03 / 100 miles
    • BMW i3-REx on gas ~= $5.85 / 100 miles (using $2.25 for premium/plus)
    • Prius v on gas ~= $4.92 / 100 miles
    NOTE: a BMW i3-REx is much smaller than a Prius v. There are larger plug-in hybrids that might be used but those should be worked up by their fans.
    We're in the same boat, Ok, ours are dingy. The point being daily commuting is often short enough that overnight charging cuts the cost per mile in half compared to gasoline around town. Furthermore, a good plug-in hybrid can compete in block-to-block speed and a price close to an efficient Prius.

    BTW, the Prius Prime is NOT a reasonable, cross-country EV due to the limited, 16A charge rate. In contrast, a BMW i3-REx might make a reasonable, cross-country EV trip IF there were enough, fast DC chargers along the route. Plugshare shows that does not exist along the NC to PA route.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Um, in Germany and Denmark, they have set up free public bicycle-charging stations along the major tourist bicycle routes. Since those are essentially weather proofed 220-volt outlets, the cost of that infrastructure is minimal. According to my accumulated charging data, our ebikes are using about 10 watt-hours (.01 kWh) per mile traveled , so the actual cost of the electricity is nominal, and I can attest to the fact that I never have seen any of those charging stations that are require payment in our bicycle trekking in Europe.
     
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  6. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Actually my wife's bad back said we took the Avalon plus it has more thigh support and seat adjust-ability so I found it much more comfortable to drive the distances since I did 80% of the driving. At 74.5+ years old, I can appreciate comfort. And of course I didn't add all the side trips to the route I listed. (Stop at Tamarack near Beckley WV if you are ever that way. Good food and a wonderful display of arts and crafts from the WVa folks.

    My interest in efficiency is primarily environmental and not economic. My interest in an EV is fun/different more than savings though I'm economically interested from my business background. I doubt I'd be driving long/far enough to recover even the charger installation costs.
     
  7. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    First electric bicycles .
    Second electric car. (Prius for cross country travel)
    Third electric airplane.
    I also am going electric for environmental and moral reasons.
     
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