Hybrid battery balancing

Let me repeat (without getting blue in the face), my beef is with Hybrid Automotive itself. I never said that these systems do not work, in fact in post #3 I stated that these systems work well but not for everyone and not for every situation. And, since this is a Prius forum I believe we should restrict the discussion of the value of these systems as they apply to the Prius. Anyone who has even basic knowledge of Honda's IMA knows that it was vastly inferior to Toyota's HSD. Honda's IMA system needed all the help it could get and the fact that Honda no longer sells hybrid vehicles with the IMA says it all.

I visited Hybrid Automotive's web site last week. Some of the information is incomplete and some of it is incorrect. The information with respect to failed HV packs is their most inaccurate information of all they discuss.

For example and this is taken word for word from their website: When the hybrid battery does not last as long as the rest of the vehicle, replacing it costs several thousand dollars and creates hazardous environmental waste. No, it does not always cost several thousand dollars to replace it and no it does not create hazardous environmental waste because nearly all of the packs are eventually recycled. The packs are; in fact, quite valuable. Try and get a complete Gen 2 pack from a junk yard for $100 - you can't.

What do they mean by: "negative battery recalibrations" in the second warning section of how do I know my hybrid battery is failing? Why not just say self discharge of the NiMH cells? That's what is actually happening, not their technobabble jargon.

Here's another example of a very misleading claim as it seems to apply to the Gen 2 Prius since they use Gen 2 MFD screenshots in their third warning description: The next phase of battery failure is a failure light on the dash and cell failure. Our products can still help vehicle owners in this situation, but the success rate depends on how long it has been since the failure first appeared. If this describes your car, please give us a call to discuss your specific situation and learn how much our products can help you and your hybrid vehicle battery.

Once a cell failure occurs, replacement of the failed module(s) is the only way to restore the pack to proper function. Hybrid Automotive clearly does not want to mention this and avoids stating this by advising the potential customer to "call them". Hybrid Automotive would most likely inform that person of the need to replace the failed module and all that would entail at that time. I can see that stating module replacement would be required on the website might dissuade a potential customer from buying a system.

Another is the claim that their system can help resolve a P0A80 and P3017. Sure it can help resolve these codes but once again it does not mention that replacement of failed modules probably would be required and does not explain what it would take to remove them or where to get replacements. A novice purchasing their system might get the impression that all they would need to do is install and run it and voila their pack would be repaired. That has happened to at least one Priuschat member I know of.

There's a lot more on Hybrid Autmotive's web site that I disagree with as it applies to the Gen 2 Prius. Toyota's HSD has worked very well for the majority of owners on its own. I believe that use of a pack level charger/discharger could actually shorten HV pack life in a Gen 2 Prius if used improperly or over zealously by its purchasers.

Going back to post #1, the OP has a failed HV pack. His options as always are to: 1) repair it 2) install a refurbished pack or 3) install a brand new pack. He can DIY or have it done for him for each of these options. And DIY will always be less expensive (duh) for all three options. It seems that the OP intends to DIY as anyone with skills and time should if they want to save $$$.

In my opinion, a pack level charger/discharger is only useful and practical from a cost/benefit standpoint for repair after failure and only when the decision has been made to eke out the maximum life out of the original HV pack. Even with a pack level charger/discharger it will be a struggle to get several years out of the existing pack primarily due to self discharge and probable failure of additional modules.

But for the OP, his best option is a brand new pack (assuming there's nothing else wrong with his car) because his Gen 2 Prius has low miles - half of what my 2005 had. He is essentially guaranteed to get another 10 years and 120K miles out of his Prius (assuming no other major failures occur). And that would be money well spent.

 

To you and me and everyone else except the OP, the "best option" is merely opinion. Only the OP can determine what the best option is that fits his situation. My opinion is a wrecked Gen 3 battery pack, the newer the better, to use as a donor. ~ $500-900 depending on how lucky you are.

 

My opinion and a damn sound recommendation to boot. My recommendation does not require "luck" as your does.

 

Nope, a new OEM battery as a solution never requires luck, just a deep wallet.................meanwhile, finding a 2013-2015 battery pack for $800 or less requires only a small amount of searching and a little DIY. To each their own....

 

Well $800 for a 2013+ requires a bit of luck in California. There's a hundred people looking lol

 

A search on car-part.com shows 2013+ Gen 3 packs are offered for much more than $800. I know because I wanted to get one but did not find one for less than $1200. If memory serves me correctly, TMR-JWAP wanted $1500 for a newer Gen 3 pack that he was offering for sale on Priuschat. I suppose this pack was one of his junk yard jewels and apparently he wanted to make a tidy profit with it.

 

Craigslist does have deals, you just have to be fast. I've purchased batteries on there for $300 - $500 from wrecks. The going price would be $1000+ for those packs

 

So the craigslist sellers of these packs must not have a clue as to their actual value or they just want to unload them quickly. There's also the chance that these craiglist packs were stolen from their rightful owners too.

 

They are usually from wrecks, you have to remove them for that price.

Owners that are parting the cars out just want a quick sale. And many really don't know the value of a hv battery pack

 

Read the OP again. He HAD a failed pack, replaced cells and was looking for the best way to balance the pack after the replacement. Your recommendation was to replace his pack which is no longer throwing codes. You're addressing an issue (failed cells) that the OP is not indicating he still has.

 

JC, I didn't realize it was a pick and pull deal with some of the wrecks you got your packs from. Fascinating.

 

At the time the OP wrote his post, he had not done any balancing so still had work to do. He was contemplating his options and one of them was to buy a commercial system that cost nearly $700 depending on the model he decided to buy. The OP had no idea how many of the modules are weak and should be replaced. He's depending on voltage readings which are not reliable. Even weak modules with low capacity have acceptable voltages and only show their true colors during a load test and better yet during a capacity test. It is possible that a pack level charger/discharger can bring back lost capacity from even the weakest modules but self discharge to my knowledge cannot be cured. So if the OP decided to keep the original pack he would need to watch over it carefully lest more modules fail if he doesn't drive his Prius long enough to keep it topped up or leaves it unused for several days in the hot sun.

You are the one who asked me what my beef with Hybrid Automotive was. Did you actually read what I wrote about them. Do you UNDERSTAND my beef with them now?

 

I'm just heading out to get some more pop-corn and beer! Anyone else need anything?

 

Yes most personal part out cars are self service. The saying is always, it's cheap when you don't need it, but expensive when you do need it.

Most people won't look for a spare battery ahead of time, just when their car breaks and then they have to pay the going rate.

 

True! But a spare battery also needs some care...

 

Still interesting that a Prius owner wouldn't know how valuable a relatively new pack is. You would think they would know. We will have to keep this our little secret.

 

If you don't account for the core, it's just worth $2000 New. So if someone is asking $800 - $1000, it's a good deal....just because there's no core needed to exchange

 

That's funny, because the last one I ordered was a 2015 for $750 and no core, just shipping. I even drove to Indiana one time and picked up (6) Gen 2 cores at $150 each from a recycling yard. Cores only because they were failed batteries that had been replaced by salvaged batteries from wrecks.
I also found a Gen 1 with a 2016 manufacture date that was on ebay for $800 and free shipping, which I didn't even purchase, but instead pointed a fellow forum member to, since I knew he needed one.

Just because you aren't able to put some energy into finding something doesn't mean no one else can. Most of mine are off craigslist, and not local. But I'm willing to put some effort into it, and I keep my eyes open all the time.

When I build a battery, I put a lot of time and effort into it. I also offer what is probably some of the best deals available on my batteries. I'm not high volume, as I'm a hobbyist. My time and effort is worth something.

And I have never offered a battery pack for $1500. It's not that hard to search, try it sometime. It was a 2015 that was out of a 14k mile wreck. $1250. Do you consider that an unfair price?

 

guys, can we just end all these arguments for or against, and just concentrate on other important issues PLEASE????

This is kinda taking lots of time and energy off everyone.