Fob fell off, only key remains on keyring...NO FRICTION!

Disaster strikes after only 10 days!

I got home tonight, and noticed that a Prime FOB WAS GONE from one of my key rings. Just the physical key remained, still firmly attached to the Toyota keyring, which itself was firmly on my keyring, which itself was firmly on a carabiner. Just the fob was nowhere to be found. I carry the 2 fobs on 2 separate key rings, with the key rings on 2 separate carabiners. Sometimes in pockets, sometimes clipped to separate belt loops, sometimes a combination.

I have carried Prius fobs this way since 2000, with never a problem. So WHY did the Prime fob release itself and disappear 10 days after I got the car???? Sorry to sound like Nancy Kerrigan, WHY WHY WHY, but this is making me feel sick to my stomach.

Experimenting with the Gen II fobs from my 2005 Prius, and my one remaining 2017 Prime fob, I now see that the Gen II has lots of friction. You have to pull on the keyring hard while holding the release catch open, to get the key and fob to even start separating. The Prime on the other hand, allows anything bumping into the release slider to almost eject the fob from the key, and certainly it's quickly disappearing by gravity and key ring jingling alone once the catch is momentarily moved.

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BE FOREWARNED: one bump of the release catch, and your fob WILL BE GONE.

Now, thanks to this stupid self-releasing-on-first-bump fob design, I have to pray that I can find where it is at which of the dozen places I went on Monday: where in the large store parking lots, or where along my long paths taken at work in a building with probably a hundred other tenants. Or where in the parking lot at work or two large stores, or the gas station, or the two eating places, or all the rest rooms, etc...... Ugh. Or head to the dealer and get ready to be in for a debate with me, and/or a good-guy/bad-guy routine between the dealer and Toyota.

Meanwhile I have to worry: did whoever found it, correlate it with me? And will I hear from them, or will they kindly turn it in to a Toyota dealer, or sell it on ebay, or will I just notice my car missing someday? I am SUPER UNHAPPY about this one. When Toyota makes their keyring hook to the inserted key rather than to the fob itself, in my view they'd better be darned sure the key and fob stay firmly connected to each other until I want to separate them. It would be far cheaper, and far less of a security threat, to have the ring hold onto the fob, and for us to just have to replace a door cylinder and two physical keys to be back in business and totally secure. Plus, how often do we use the physical key? Basically never? How far can a thief get with just a key versus the fob? Nowhere...just into the interior of the car, not driving it away. Toyota failed all of us on this.

Will Toyota treat it as a design defect and re-program my car for totally new fob codes (to protect against someone having found it in one of the parking lots I frequent, from stealing the car later) and provide me two new fobs (or 1 new one and reprogram my remaining one) as a warranty issue?

I'm suspecting I might not like the answer, or be happy about the price they'll charge if they don't take care of this. Almost regretting buying a new car. This never would have happened in a million years with my 2005.

If you can't tell, I was upset that I lost the fob, but I was ready to blame myself at least partially. Until I tested the other fob and realized it was absolutely a design flaw and an accident waiting to happen. If they try profiting by charging for doing fob replacement/reprogramming work they caused, this will be war. This is such a blatant design flaw, and such a step down from the security of the fob/key interconnection they provided a dozen years ago, that I will indeed take them to court if they claim it's my fault and charge me for it.

Am I over-reacting? Should I have known to put the fob/key combo in a "lock box" like a zippered pants pocket rather than use the TOYOTA-PROVIDED key ring? Which to me implies it can withstand being next to other keys, and another Toyota fob. Ironically, the one next to both a bunch of keys and a Gen II fob didn't detach. It's the one on a carabiner with only a Gen II fob also on it, which got lost. Should I have known the Toyota design was inadequate and put the whole thing inside a third-party case which actually attaches to a key ring with no chance of separation/loss of the fob from the key? Or wouldn't anyone suggesting that, just be confirming that the Toyota design is inadequate?

I love this car, but I am also disgusted at how poor this is, how far backwards they went since my Gen II on something as simple as keeping the fob from falling off its own little key ring.

 

Well, I guess I'm the only person who ever keeps their key fobs on key rings which sometimes are on a belt loop rather than in a pocket.

Keeping all your keys and fobs in your pocket has some disadvantages of its own, namely that the lock/unlock buttons can easily be accidentally pressed, just like any little flashlight I keep in my pocket tends to get switched on every couple of weeks and kill its batteries, despite its switch having a spring 20x as strong as the fob's catch does.

I'll still stand my my assertion that anything designed to be attached to a key ring (as the fobs clearly are) ought to be designed to STAY ON the key ring under normal usage, whether in a pocket or hanging from a carabiner or key chain. It could just as easily get released in your pocket, and fall out a hole in the pocket, or fall out when you pull your keys out of your pocket, etc. Normally not a problem, as we usually feel or hear when something falls. But a fob falling on carpet or grass without hitting your leg on the way down, isn't necessarily going to make enough noise to get your attention.

I will say that you're more likely to be paying attention to it being there, right when you take it out of your pocket. But I don't think that having keys/fobs on a belt loop or key chain or carabiner rather than a pocket, should be considered an unforeseen or even a poorly-chosen way of carrying a fob that specifically has a key ring built into its attached key. The shocking thing is how loosely attached the key is. The catch spring on my remaining fob is not especially weak, but also is nowhere near strong enough to guarantee that it's not getting activated when in a pocket or on a keychain.

If the fob requires a case binding the key to the fob, and/or preventing accidental activation of the release catch, then that's how the fobs should be delivered by Toyota. I will epoxy my key to the fob before doing that, though. Can always cut through the epoxy in the unlikely event of needing the key. I just won't do it just yet, seeing as I might be needing to move the keys to new fobs.

 

As for the wisdom of carrying both fobs/keys.....I was lucky to be driving my 2005 when I lost the 2017 fob. If I'd been driving the 2017, I'd have been very, very glad I'd brought both fobs and not been stranded. The main downside to carrying both is that it doesn't let you know the other one is missing, should you not notice that, because the car still opens and starts. So, then when you notice it's missing, you do have to wonder how long it was missing, where you lost it, try to remember when you last positively saw it, etc. Which is the predicament I'm in, but not due to carrying both of them.

Well....maybe it's due to carrying both of them. Like a twin-engine plane, it's nice to have that 2nd engine when the first one dies, but having two does double the chance of an engine failure! If I'd taken just one, it would have been a coin flip as to whether it was the one that came loose, or the one that didn't!

And of course there is the other downside, that if you lose your pants, or end up underwater, both are gone or dead. I've never lost my pants, nor have I ended up underwater with key fobs.

 

Yes and no. Maybe put the phone number of a friend, your car dealer, or a police station's lost and found. Too easy for someone to use your number to find out who you are, where you live, and take your car. Even if 99% of people are honest, maybe they're up for a joyride. The risk level largely depends upon where you lose the key, where you work and live, and how much of your info is easily found, and how easily. Which nowadays, tends to mean enough of it, quite easily, especially to anyone with ill intent....it's a tool of their trade.

 

Prodigyplace has a point.

OK, everyone: hold your fob by its little keyring, and test it:

1. How hard you have to push the key release catch to release it?
In the case of my not-lost fob, sort of firmly, nothing appears wrong with its spring.

2. Just by pushing sideways on the catch to release it, while holding only the keyring, does the little downward component of the mostly-sideways force on the catch, send the fob flying off the key?
In the case of my not-lost fob, yes, easily, every time....until I practiced trying to have it not fly off.

3. Even once you've practiced unlatching it as gently as possible, and succeeding in not having it fly off, has the key moved enough that when you let go and the latch spring retracts, the key and fob are no longer latched together, and are absolutely ready to come apart with very little force?
In the case of my not-lost fob, yes, easily, until I practiced my unlatching technique to not move the key at all, by pulling perfectly horizontally on the Toyota ring in the opposite direction of pushing the latch, by having another key ring inside it, touching the fob. The sort of thing that would never happen during any accidental pushing of the latch by other objects in your pocket or on any key ring or carabiner you put the little Toyota fob ring onto.

Now, unlatch the key, remove it, and reinsert until you feel the stiff resistance needed to re-latch the key to the fob. Play with latching it to see where the resistance starts when pushing it in.

4. Is it easy to stop the insertion at any point you choose, and have friction hold it there?
On mine, absolutely not. Only over a very narrow range of positions.

5. Inserted anywhere past the narrow range of positions where it will stay unlatched and held by friction, does it nicely snap in and latch, typically faster than you can stop it unless you're firmly holding it (pulling to keep it from continuing into place)?
On mine, yes.

6. Inserted anywhere short of the narrow range of positions where it will stay unlatched and held by friction, does it fall off with essentially zero resistance/friction?
On mine, yes. Obviously, it can be held at horizontal angles to create some friction between the key and the weight of the fob. But when just holding the Toyota ring by another ring, it's somewhere near vertical and falls off with essentially zero resistance.

7. If you hold the fob horizontal (flat, non-button side up) by only holding/tilting the Toyota ring, then tip it down until the fob falls off, what angles are the Toyota ring, and the fob itself at, when the fob falls?
On mine, the fob is about 45 degrees from horizontal, and the Toyota ring is about 10 degrees from horizontal when the fob flies off.