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(5) beta testers sought for new technology

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Pedal Logic, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi Tande,

    It's just a one-time step at installation.

    The reason for that step is to teach Smartpedal your accelerator pedal's full range of motion. If this step is omitted during install, Smartpedal will still figure out the range over the next few days by monitoring pedal usage.

    It takes good data to make good decisions though, so the sooner the system understands the pedal range, the quicker it can start improving mileage.

    Marc
     
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  2. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    Pasted below is an updated version of the installation and calibration/mode changes videos for the Gen3 Prius:





    Please let me know if you think of additional detail that would be helpful and I'll update the videos.

    Best,
    Marc
     
  3. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    A quick refresh on the advanced driving modes and how they work: Smartpedal uses probabilistic analysis to determine whether a particular pedal movement was wanted or unwanted. You can raise or lower the threshold for making corrections through use of the advanced driving modes.
    • Mode 1 sets the threshold to its most conservative: corrections are only made when the system is very, very sure its needed and the corrections themselves and very small in degree.
    • Mode 5 sets the threshold to its most aggressive: corrections are frequent and will be very noticeable.
    • Mode 3 sits between these and is designed to make corrections that are transparent to most drivers.
    A final note: if you drive in with your Prius in ECO mode, you probably want to stay between Modes 1-4.

    Marc
     
  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Definitely mode 4 was where I saw the best result, given my preference for ECO mode. You saw the results when we tried PWR mode:eek:.

    You around next week and available for a quick meet up?
     
  5. Tande

    Tande Active Member

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    Thank You.......
     
  6. digbywombles

    digbywombles Junior Member

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    Got some more data. The latest figure is in mode 3, previous was mode 2. I've got used to the pedal lag. It all looks very positive! Screenshot_20170729-171235.png
     
  7. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi swapper,

    First things first: your video shows that Smartpedal is in Mode 1. For future reference, the sequence of lights during boot is this:
    1. Super brief flash of orange at power on.
    2. One flash each of green, orange and red during self test.
    3. Between 1-5 orange flash to show driving mode.
    4. Heart beat of green flash thereafter to show it's happy.
    On the lag at the uphill exit at the car park, our best guess at the moment is that Smartpedal is interpreting the initial change in angel (the start of the exit) as a really big bump because the effect of the motion on the front end of the vehicle, and the driver's use of the pedal, will be very similar. We'll work on finding a software solution to improve responsiveness in that situation.

    Marc
     
  8. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi swapper,

    In follow up to my previous reply, we're working on a software solution to the issue you describe. The core coding will be done fairly quickly, but then we have three days of automated testing before release. The total is about a week before we can ship it. To set expectations, the software update won't completely solve the issue you mention, but it will make it better, and probably much better.

    In the meantime, you can manipulate Smartpedal into thinking everything is okay and no corrections are needed by coasting the last few feet to the beginning of the uphill exit, then accelerating as you normally would once the front wheels are on the incline. Sorry for this workaround in the meantime.

    Marc
     
  9. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi Raytheeagle,

    This week is kind of shot, especially because I'm road-tripping to pick up my Gen2 (as in kid, not car) at summer camp. Any day next week would work though, and by then the new software release should be ready.

    Marc
     
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  10. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Subject: Crowdfunding 101

    Hi Everyone,

    I received a few PMs last week asking for more detail regarding our potential crowdfunding campaign. I've held off replying until now because I haven't had answers for the questions. In fact, I still don't have the answers, but thought that I would share a behind-the-scenes look into how crowdfunding works from financial and marketing perspectives.

    There are basically two ways to do crowdfunding:
    1. DIY. In the early days of crowdfunding, campaigns sometimes went viral, and companies could generate sales in the 6 or 7 figures. Those days are gone. Today, the most competitive campaigns have six-figure ad budgets run by professional campaign managers--see bullet #2 below. DIY campaigns can't effectively compete for media or end user attention against those campaigns--and as a result typically bring in just thousands of dollars instead of hundreds of thousands (or millions like the Pebble watch did in 2012).

    2. Hire an agency to manage your campaigns. There are dozens of these firms. The best firms want 25K up front, plus 5-10% of gross. The average campaign for firms like this are around $1M in revenue. To protect their brand, these firms want exciting technologies that actually work and will be actually released. You have to interview with these firms, as they usually only run 1-2 campaigns a month. We've been interviewed are happy to report that the two top firms have given us proposals.
    All that sounds great, right? Except here's the thing: the typical cost of acquisition in #2 is nearly $40 per customer! Plus, crowdfunding campaigns do best when the sale price includes shipping and sales tax pre-paid by the seller. On top of that, there's about 8.2% commission to Kickstarter for hosting the campaign and processing contributions.

    After we added in the cost of production and support, we discovered that we lost money no matter whether we sold 100K or 2M in product. It was hard to see how this would be of value to any but a really well-funded VC-backed startup looking to buy its ways into a big marketing "splash"--i.e., building its brand.

    So maybe a retro DIY campaign after all:

    Even though it's much smaller, we may still launch a DIY campaign dedicated exclusively to Toyota vehicles: Prius (+ c & v), Camry, RAV4, Yaris and so on. We'll likely decide by Monday.

    I'm curious though for the group's opinions on this issue: do you think Smartpedal is a good candidate for a crowdfunding campaign? The reason I ask is because most of the crowdfunded tech is eye candy: better headphones, voice-activated home automation, and the like. What do you think? I'd appreciate any thoughts/ideas people have on this topic.

    And if we don't do a campaign:

    We have production units arriving at the end of next week. We'll take care of this group. You guys have been great to work with.

    Marc
     
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  11. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    How about August 12th:)?

    This might give you an opportunity to show off your technology to maybe some new members at the meet up;).

    Let me know(y).
     
  12. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi Raytheeagle,

    It's a good idea, but we may have to move the date due to the availability of the group. Maybe the 19th or 26th will work? I posted on the meet-up thread asking people to shout out dates that work.

    I have a freakin' awesome grill. We'll have to cook sausages or hamburgers for the meet up.

    Marc
     
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  13. Paranormal Rob

    Paranormal Rob Active Member

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    Someone just pointed me to this thread and I'm very interested in this.

    I recently bought a 2013 Prius v 5 at 36k miles (now 41k) and most of the miles come from driving Uber/Lyft part time (3000-5000/month) so I could give tons of feedback and data. I live in Raleigh/Durham, NC and its bumpy everywhere! Quite annoying.

    I recently had Toyota do a fuel system.service and switch from BP E0 87 to BP E0 89 (which is cheaper-go figure) and my last fillup was 47.6 mpg. I want to see 50 consistently.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  14. Paranormal Rob

    Paranormal Rob Active Member

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    Also I fillup 3x per week so I can do entire tanks in all mode combinations

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  15. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi Paranormal Rob,

    Good to meet you! I consider Uber and Lyft drivers a potentially very big market (kind of a meta-fleet of sorts) for SmartPedal. If you can spread the word to a few other Uber/Lyft drivers, I will PM you a discount code for a very large discount.

    In terms of the device, we now sell only the 5-mode device. Most find that Mode 4 used with the Prius' built-in ECO mode performs best; we recommend switching out of ECO if you want to use Mode 5--but you don't have to and can experiment.

    SmartPedal does perform differently depending on the vehicle, roadway and driver, but your 50 mpg target sounds very reasonable based on results reported to date (including from my own 2014 Prius v).

    Marc
     
    #275 Pedal Logic, Aug 13, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  16. daiske99

    daiske99 Member

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    Marc,

    Here is my mpg in mode3 with the advanced unit.
    First tank: 55.5mpg
    Second tank: 56.3mpg
    (I had been overseas for 2 weeks.)

    As the weather is getting cooler, the number is getting better. But it looks like there is almost no difference between mode 5 in the extremis and mode 3 in the advanced.

    Fyi. I got 56.2mpg in mode 5 with the extremis. As the weather is much cooler than weeks ago, I will have to test the extremis again to see if I can get better mpg. When I tested the extremis, it was the hottest. Considering the hot temperature, I think 56.2 mpg was pretty good number.
     
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  17. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Hi daiske99,

    Your update is much appreciated. I dug up my notes on the pre-test mileage you reported, which was 52.2. Especially with the hot weather, your 2015 Prius is generating some good numbers. That said, you had an even better 57.1 mpg report a few months ago. How much of that ~1.0 additional mpg do you think was attributable to the cooler weather then?

    FYI, we're going to get rid of the idea of a segmented product line -- prime (1 mode), advanced (3 mode), and extremis (5 mode) -- and just ship only 5-mode devices which we will label simply "SmartPedal." This product strategy provides the most value for customers and also is simpler for us. Candidly, we understand that we may be leaving money on the table, but we're big fans of keeping things simple. Sometimes we just need to experiment to get us there.

    Thanks for returning your exchange unit promptly–and for your testing and reports to date.

    Marc
     
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  18. Paranormal Rob

    Paranormal Rob Active Member

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  19. daiske99

    daiske99 Member

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    So you want me to return the extremis having 5 modes, not the advanced unit having 3 modes, right?
     
  20. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Other than saying "extremis," the 5-mode unit is the full production unit. Please do send back the 3-mode though.

    Marc