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2018 Camry and Camry Hybrid Official Thread

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by GasperG, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    What happened to a lot of GM marques like Oldsmobile is that people weren't growing into them, and the existing customers were dying out of them.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if they change the camry too radically, the same might happen.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Toyota has had a problem with new cars for younger buyers. We can put it down to 3 things

    Handling
    Looks
    Infotainment.

    Often, like happened to me, I got a used toyota, for cost reasons while in college, but then when they have a decent paying job they choose something else. For me it was lexus (one car in between), then I traded down to a prius.

    Infotainment is still behind in the new camry but its a lot better than the 2010 prius I bought, and changed out the head set.
    Looks, well, still not good but at least different, I have no idea who it really appeals to. The fusion seemed to be designed well for looks, but not for packaging in the segment. This at least brings the camry closer.
    Handling - It appears to now be good enough to not be a reason not to buy the camry. ;-)

    Toyota says that the current gen Camry SE has been attracting younger (compared to the traditional 57 yo median age before) drivers.

    On the hybrid, car and driver seemed to say the braking software is much improved from the previous version. They say the suspension is tuned differently and for them not as well. Let's face it, hybrid buyers skew older, and they probably tuned the suspension for a 60 year old driver. IMHO that is probably the right thing in the LE hybrid. The SE hybrid though? Wth. Why don't they allow you to buy lithium and 16" tires? They should allow people to buy the better handling hybrid without the stuff that hurts fuel economy, and grr handling. Maybe even let them buy a 1.4 kwh lithium batter in that upgrade (it would fit, it's smaller than the 1.5 kwh nimh in there now), that is the size in the fusion. The fusion hybrid although slower from a start, feels more responsive while driving. Its probably because of the more powerful battery, which allows software to be more responsive, without overheating. Still that is a minor quibble based simply on the preliminary information, which is overwelmingly positive.

    Anyway. Good Job Akio Toyoda. You have not quite made the camry fun to drive which is hard in one generation, but it looks like it is a lot more fun and efficient than the camry before. This is definitely a step in the right direction with the new management.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed. if the next hycam isn't squishy and luxurious like the present one, these 60+ year olds may be looking around.
     
  5. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Note that improved suspension designs can give a composed, comfortable ride while also improving handling.
     
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  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    My friends called me old for buying a Matrix.o_O
    There is the Avalon hybrid for them.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would go for it, but my wife thinks it's too big. i wonder what it will get for mpg's with the new system.
     
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Isn't the US-spec Passat larger than the European version? They made a note to point it out at the introduction (as well as proudly stating that it's made in Chattanooga, TN)

    The last generation 6 had two versions - US sized and European sized. The European one looked more stylish and better proportioned. The US version just look bloated. I think the current sedan is harmonized across the world.
     
  9. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    It's larger than the European 7th-generation version, being contemporaneous with that model. (Note that the European 7th-gen was just a facelift of the 6th-gen, which we got in the US.) It's closer when compared to the 8th-gen, though, but the US car is still bigger. And then there's the Škoda Superb, which isn't as long, but is quite a bit wider, having a larger on-road footprint as a result.

    I'll list the top-three midsize transverse engined models in Europe (per this site, Passat, Superb, Mondeo - the only three in the top 100) and the US (per this site, Camry, Accord, and Altima), with their counterparts in the other region (so that means the US Passat (which is both the Euro Passat and the Superb's counterpart), the Fusion, the Avensis, and the Renault Talisman (that's seriously as close as I can get to an Altima counterpart), with no real Accord counterpart any more (Honda's closest offerings are the Civic and the CR-V, but I'll post the previous Euro Accord)) and selected generations other than current.

    Body styles will be the default body style - that means sedans, or for the Superb and Mondeo, liftbacks, and I'll use base models (so height may be slightly higher than high efficiency models, length may be slightly shorter). Width will not include mirrors, as is standard.

    Vehicles will be sorted in decreasing overall length.

    Model Chassis Region Length Wheelbase Width Height
    1 2017 Honda Accord CR2/3 US 4890 mm (192.5") 2776 mm (109.3") 1849 mm (72.8") 1466 mm (57.7")
    2 2018 Toyota Camry XV70 US 4879 mm (192.1") 2824 mm (111.2") 1839 mm (72.4") 1445 mm (56.9")
    3 2017 Volkswagen Passat NMS US 4875 mm (191.9") 2803 mm (110.4") 1834 mm (72.2") 1487 mm (58.5")
    4 2017 Nissan Altima L33 US 4874 mm (191.9") 2776 mm (109.3") 1829 mm (72.0") 1468 mm (57.8")
    5 2017 Ford Mondeo CD391 Euro 4871 mm (191.8") 2850 mm (112.2") 1852 mm (72.9") 1482 mm (58.3")
    6 2017 Ford Fusion CD391 US 4871 mm (191.8") 2850 mm (112.2") 1852 mm (72.9") 1478 mm (58.2")
    7 2017 Volkswagen Passat B8 Euro 4866 mm (191.6") 2791 mm (109.9") 1832 mm (72.1") 1456 mm (57.3")
    8 2017 Škoda Superb B8 Euro 4861 mm (191.4") 2841 mm (111.9") 1864 mm (73.4") 1468 mm (57.8")
    9 2017 Renault Talisman Euro 4849 mm (190.9") 2809 mm (110.6") 1868 mm (73.5") 1463 mm (57.6")
    10 2017 Toyota Camry XV50 US 4849 mm (190.9") 2776 mm (109.3") 1821 mm (71.7") 1471 mm (57.9")
    11 2011 Volkswagen Passat B7 Euro 4769 mm (187.8") 2712 mm (106.8") 1820 mm (71.7") 1470 mm (57.9")
    12 2015 Honda Accord CU1/2/3 Euro 4725 mm (186.0") 2705 mm (106.5") 1840 mm (72.4") 1440 mm (56.7")

    All dimensions for the Fusion except for height were copied from the Mondeo, as the inch conversions were the same on the Ford US site.
     
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  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I guess the question is whether there is a market for the Camry in Europe or would Toyota rather sell you a RAV4 for the same (or possible higher) price than a theoretical Camry.
     
  11. Spindifferent

    Spindifferent Member

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  12. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Yesterday I went deeper in the japanese site and found the Camry price: from 3.3Myen. That's 35% up against the 4gen HV Prius (starting 2.4Kyen).
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    base models each?
     
  14. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Yes, prices "starting from".
     
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  15. Spindifferent

    Spindifferent Member

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    More Japan Camry info:

    2018 Toyota Camry Debuts In Japan, Hybrid Only - Auto News - Carlist.my

    The article states that the Japan Camry has the following fuel efficiency specs:

    "33.4 km/L for the entry-level Camry X" Is this likely the LE here in the US?

    "Camry G and G Leather return 28.4 km/L due to the vehicle's weight" Are these likely the SE and XLE here in the US?

    These fuel efficiency numbers are greater than the US EPA estimates by a wide margin.

    33.4 km/L = 78.5 miles/gallon(US)

    28.4 km/L = 66.8 miles/gallon(US)

    I'm not familiar with how fuel efficiency is estimated differently between the US and Japan. Any thoughts?
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    japan tests show way higher than here. i don't think there's a correlating percentage you can use.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if that holds over here, the base camry will be 32k. that's unlikely, but we'll have to wait and see.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Japan's tests are the easiest official ones out there.
     
  19. Spindifferent

    Spindifferent Member

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  20. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Test drove 2018 Camry LE, SE yesterday, took another sit in an LE today. Ruled it out. No go. Have to get XLE or Hybrid SE or above to get electric parking brake/Brake Hold/ Full speed radar cruise features. That plus the narrow, jutting into my hips seat cushion are deal breakers.

    2018 Accord will have Sensing standard on all trim levels which has e park brake/hold/ adaptive cruise with low speed follow. Check that out in couple months.