Adaptive cruise control / safety sense issue

I totally agree!

 

I agree to some extent with you. Nevertheless I tend to explore the features and plus and delta of this car's features before I decide to change my mood on perception of the car. It is indeed very nice piece of car, regardless of it's limitations of the features provided
more we learn what we have in our hands better we are gonna be. Nothing can replace the driver if other drivers are driving the vehicles around....
All those bells and whistles are nice to have, but won't work as advertised. They are nothing else than just marketing strategy since nothing can replace the driver if other drivers are driving the vehicles around....
I believe exchanging the experiences here and collecting those might eventually help the Prime to improve.. if Toyota is willing to listen to the feedback. And if there are grounds to build the case that Prime does not perform as advertised - that is even better
cheers

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about this:

There are different 'cognitive styles', ways to thinking about how things work. We've seen this in the past with VW TDI drivers who buy a Prius and just can't get the mileage they expected. Regardless of how many suggestions and offers to help including test drives by Toyota representatives, they can't get the mileage expected. In effect, their unstoppable customer expectation and driving style meets the reality of the Prius rock.

My recommendation is replace your car as soon as possible and buy something else. You will never be happy with it even though I remain throughly delighted with mine. So I won't be joining your call for action against Toyota. BTW, there is no 'line item' for TSS-P so you can't claim a specific financial loss. Fortunately, you have alternatives.

The Tesla Model 3 are in production so you might go for one of those. Alternatively, Hyundai Ioniq and the Chevy Volt both have versions of adaptive cruise control that might match your expectations. I have no experience with the Hyundai, Chevy, or Tesla systems. One warning, we also have a 2014 BMW i3-REx with an optically based system. It works like the Prime although not as reliably as the Toyota radar unit.

It sounds like you need to let your Prius Prime go the used car market to find a new home. If you want a Toyota, previous model year Toyotas can be bought without TSS-P like a 2016 Prius Level 2 ECO. Talk to the dealer and you might yet get a deal.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Bob, your point towards @xvs is valid, but I'd not discourage to continue to own Prime. Being the contend owner of the line of the TDI cars over last two decades I can tell Prime is surprisingly good car - performance wise (sic!). I think approach to put pressure on toyota to improve 'over advertised car' makes a point.
Anyway @xvs : my advice play with this car and see what you can/ can't live with and go from there.
I was in your place a moth after buying the cat, got frustrated, and.... I keep it and try to get moost out of it.

cheers

 

I see some analogies with standard cruise control, which has been around for decades but seemed to become more standard in the 1980's and 90's. Besides being a convenience feature, cruise control offered something in the way of increased safety by reducing driver fatigue on long trips, and it also allowed the driver to concentrate more on their surroundings by eliminating the need for constantly glancing down at the speedometer.

However cruise control came with a catch - it is not safe in wet or icy conditions, high traffic situations, or when the highway makes a sharp bend which may require a reduction in speed (the last point is more common on two-lane highways not interstates). Since the system is unable to determine current driving conditions (maybe some high end cars do now), it is up to the driver to know when it is safe to engage cruise control, and they also need to be ready to quickly switch cruise control off when driving conditions change.

To compare with the current situation, it would be as if in 1980 Toyota was touting it's cruise control system and claiming that it can be used in virtually all driving conditions. But then on the "CressidaChat" forum, owners started reporting that cruise control did not work well at all in the above mentioned situations, and in fact seemed dangerous. In my hypotheical discussion, I am sure other commentators would point out that the Cressida owners manual specifically states not to use cruise control in those situations.

Back to the current situation, DRCC potentially offers additional safety benefits, by reducing the need to constantly stare at the car in front of you. Certainly you need to keep that car in your focus, but it's easier to be aware of your entire 360 degree surroundings when DRCC is helping you to maintain safe distance with the car in front of you. However like standard cruise control, the driver needs to be aware of conditions where DRCC should not be used, regardless of what Toyota marketing says. With all of Toyota's recent emphasis on safety this seems like a bit of a communication slipup that they need to straighten out.

 

What? A place called PriusChat might have 'enthusiasts?'

The word "refund" might have suggested no interest in working with us about how the car works.

If grading the Prius in TSS-P, I would give it a B. It could be better but don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough.

I'm thumb posting which makes a technical discussion difficult. So lets chat later about specific technical issues and how to effect a change.

Bob Wilson

 

I haven't seen behavior quite the same as described. There are some deficiencies that I have also seen on other manufacturer's systems, both optical and radar based.

One significant system issue is that the radar does not have any vertical discrimination so they cannot respond to just anything in front of the car as it may be a bridge or traffic signal above the road. As a result the system only responds to objects that have a speed of at least a few miles per hour. As far as I know all manufacturer's systems are similar - I believe this played a part in the death of the Tesla driver using Autopilot.

This is a problem with the cut-out situation where the preceding car turns into a left exit lane exposing a stationary or slow moving car in front - this car will be invisible so the Prius will speed up. In the few situations where I had the courage to let the Prius proceed the AEB has kicked in and brought the car to sudden halt.

The other situation where the preceding car turns to the left or right and the systems disengages with "No Preceding Car" message is working as designed. There seems to be a threshold speed of about 28mph below which the car will not accelerate in this case. I assume the thinking is that it would be dangerous to just accelerate from low speed just because the system lost sight of the preceding car as there could be other reasons causing that.

The power mode affects the acceleration when following - you will probably see the Hybrid indicator showing that the acceleration just reaches the maximum ECO level. Normal and Power give progressively more acceleration.

kevin

 

Aw, and you were doing so well up until then.

Bob is in fact a constructive contributor, known for fact based rather than opinion based comments. I think he was merely responding, somewhat civility actually, to your statements that Toyota owes you a refund if they don't deliver as advertised with this feature, and he was just being realistic that if that's how you feel you might as well take that path. In my opinion DRCC deficiencies are not going be solved by a software patch, but likely only through refinement that may not be seen until future models, perhaps even requiring improved hardware. In the meantime the safest bet is to follow the warnings in the owners manual, or at least proceed very cautiously while learning the limitations.

My only experience with DRCC is with a rented Infiniti a few months ago, in fact I posted my experience at the time and expressed my concern about how it reacted to a car pulling between me and the car in front of me. I felt like it took way to long for the system to recognize what was happening and I realized that in those situations I needed to quickly take over to avoid a dangerous situation.

Over time I think we will get more feedback as people try different settings which might improve things in some situations. But what if we find that one setting helps in one situation but another setting is needed for other situations? That would only confirm that this feature should be considered as one that is still in early stages and should be used accordingly.

 

Clearly there is room for improvement, but I’ve found the DRCC system easier to use with the vehicle-to-vehicle distance set to Long, the greatest of the three choices, giving more reaction time if another driver does something unexpected, or if the system operates in an unacceptable way.

It would be interesting to know the speed at which this happens; according to the Owner’s Manual, cancellation is expected when the “preceding vehicle leaves the lane when your vehicle is following at a vehicle speed below approximately 25 mph (40 km/h).”

Readers interested in the technicalities of adaptive cruise control systems may wish to refer to the SAE J2399, ISO 15622, and ISO 22179 industry standards. J2399 has an extensive bibliography on the human factors issues, which are substantial and, if experience in aviation is any guide, likely to get worse as driver-assistance capabilities increase. (If you’ve seen “Children of the Magenta,” raise your hand.)

 

No I did not.
I said that doing the things that you want to do is irresponsible and dangerous.....given the current state of the technology.
I agree that the advertising is misleading and dangerous, given the instructions in the manual.

 

What exactly is an "arbitrary tone" ??
And who appointed YOU to define the purpose of the forum ?

 

Agree.
Nevertheless at lover speeds and in dense traffic reducing the DRCC separation distance and changing the drive mode benefits the overall performance of the system (it better follows the traffic)

 

Guess that puts me in good company. <GRINS>

If you'll click on my user icon to the left, there is an "Ignore" option that will shield you from comments by me or anyone else you choose. IMHO, a good thing for all parties. For example, my current 'ignore user' list has four entries which makes five of us very happy.

BTW, this is not a 'hide me from' option but rather the middle primate option:

Your postings remain available for comment and of course, entertainment. The 'hide me from' option is found at: http://www.cleanmpg.com

Bob Wilson