What should be replaced @ 150, 000 miles??

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Jesse Elledge, Jun 27, 2017.

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  1. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    One of the cells went bad in my hybrid battery. It was a relatively easy fix, but right after the check engine light kicked back on. This time it was the inverter coolant pump. Before I fix this, I want to see if anyone out there knows what else should be replaced at 150,000 miles.

    I hope to avoid continuous problems of course and would love to see this car get to at least 300,000!

    At 145,000
    1. Transmission has been flushed
    2. Coolant has been replaced
    3. Filters have been replaced
    4. Serpentine Belt was replaced
    5. Spark Plugs have NOT been replaced

    Any help would be appreciated!
     
    #1 Jesse Elledge, Jun 27, 2017
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    What's the code you're getting for the check engine light?

    An inverter pump failure does not light the check engine light

    If you fixed your battery with a simple module swap, your problem will soon return
     
    #2 JC91006, Jun 27, 2017
  3. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    P3130- Bad Inverter Pump. When we checked the pump it wasn't working, so that's definitely what flipped the check engine light on.

    I don't know exactly what you mean by module swap. We replaced a bad cell in the battery and it seems to be running fine for now.
     
    #3 Jesse Elledge, Jun 27, 2017
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Maybe it does for gen1 cars. Didn't do it on my gen2
     
    #4 JC91006, Jun 27, 2017
  5. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    More than likely you replaced a module, which is the smallest unit of the battery. The module contains 6 cells and is a sealed unit. I doubt you cut open the module to replace a cell.

    So what you most likely did was a module swap.
     
    #5 dolj, Jun 27, 2017
  6. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    That's weird.
     
    #6 Jesse Elledge, Jun 27, 2017
  7. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    I'm not sure if we're talking about the same part. The hybrid battery has 38 "cells" as they were called in the factory. I don't know if by "module" you mean the same part, but I don't think so as there were way more than 6.
     
    #7 Jesse Elledge, Jun 27, 2017
  8. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    Actually it looks like the part is titled "cell module" but I'm still unsure if we're talking about the same thing. Is this what you're referring to?
     

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    #8 Jesse Elledge, Jun 27, 2017
  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You haven't understood what I said, those units (which you are calling "cells") are modules, and yes, in the Gen 1 there are 38 of them. Inside those modules are cells. There are 6 of them (cells) per module, making up the 228 cells that comprise the battery.

    The point I am making is it is important when talking in these forums to use common terminology so that information is clear and we all understand each other. It is particularly important so the new people that come here wanting to learn about things don't get confused or misinformed.
     
    #9 dolj, Jun 28, 2017
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  10. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    I see what you are saying. The correct term for this part is actually "cell module" or "cell block." They are often referred to as just "cells" by part sellers for short which is only slightly inaccurate because the module or block is, as you said, comprised of cells which do not commonly get replaced. There would be absolutely no point to gut open a cell module and fix a cell when the module is only $35.

    I'm glad we were able to clear that up for the new comers who maybe confused about the way the parts are titled on different websites. Thanks!
     
    #10 Jesse Elledge, Jun 28, 2017
  11. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    No, a block is something different. A block is 2 modules which are the units monitored by the HV ECU. Given that they are different, and if you need to shorten it, it makes more sense to drop the "cell". BTW cell block makes me feel like I'm in prison. lol.
    That is just lazy ignorance on their part. Can't do much about that. But in PriusChat at least we can be consistent.
     
    #11 dolj, Jun 28, 2017
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    1. What you replaced is a "module"
    2. Each module contains 6 "cells" - look at the picture you posted, there's 6 sections in the module, each is an individual cell. They cannot be replaced individually. If 1 cell fails, the entire module fails.
    3. A "block" is a set of 2 modules.

    So your gen1 configuration has 19 blocks or 38 modules or 228 cells
     
    #12 JC91006, Jun 28, 2017
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  13. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    Toyota calls it a cell block. That's why the code reads off "cell block 9 becomes weak" for example. And it was accurate because we tested the "modules" and it was the 9th one that was reading low voltage.
     
    #13 Jesse Elledge, Jun 28, 2017
  14. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Code one-liner is "Battery Block xx Becomes Weak"
    You got it wrong then, because if it was battery block 9, that would have been modules 17 and 18 as counted from the end where the ECU and associated wiring and electronics are.
     
    #14 dolj, Jun 28, 2017
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  15. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    The code liner was "cell block 9 becomes weak." That was directly from the Toyota service center. They wanted to charge around $2500 for a new Hybrid Battery which I could not afford, so I did research and with the help of a mechanic-friend, replaced the bad module. When we tested the modules, the 9th one was bad.

    I saw a lot of people performing this repair with mixed reviews, but I could not find anyone who documented how long the repair remained effective before having to replace another module or just the entire Hybrid Battery.

    I'm clear on the terminology except for one last part... If a "block" refers to a series of 2 modules, why doesn't the code read off "cell block 5 becomes weak" as the 9th module would a part of the 5th "block?"
     
    #15 Jesse Elledge, Jun 28, 2017
  16. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    So, going back to what you were originally saying, you think that the repair won't last long because if one "module" goes bad you can replace it, but the problem will arise again when the others start going bad? Am I correct?
     
    #16 Jesse Elledge, Jun 28, 2017
  17. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    The reason it'll happen again is because your battery pack has 228 cells, all old and probably out of balance. They all have different capacity levels and the self discharge rates are all different.

    If 1 cell out of the 228 cells fail, the entire battery pack fails. This is a vicious cycle that will just repeat itself over and over again.....but the timing of how long it'll last is the unknown. From experience, it won't last long
     
    #17 JC91006, Jun 28, 2017
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Was this the actual printout from Techstream, or was it what ended up in the job invoice?
    I guess that depends on how you tested it.
    I think you are the victim of your incorrect understanding and you saw what you want to see based on what you think you would see. If module 9 was bad, yes, the code would have been "Battery Block 5 Becomes Weak, as modules 9 and 10 are block 5.
     
    #18 dolj, Jun 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  19. Jesse Elledge

    Jesse Elledge Junior Member

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    Ok. Thanks. Have you heard of power reconditioning of a Hybird battery?
     
    #19 Jesse Elledge, Jun 28, 2017
  20. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Yes, Hybrid Automotive sells a Prolong system that reconditions, charges, and balances the battery pack. But on a Gen1 car, I probably wouldn't spend the money
     
    #20 JC91006, Jun 28, 2017
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