2018 Camry and Camry Hybrid Official Thread

Minor edit, I hope.

You're asking for single-pedal driving which is neat. Given a choice, I'd rather have the automatic "N", drag-free coasting and kill the creep BUT pedal-off, hold position on any slope. I don't mind if the brake lights are on when the car is not moving ... probably a good idea.

Bob Wilson

 

i read it as less regen when foot off the throttle.

 

Oh I think they should do both as driver selected options. I'm guessing glide mode when stopped will creep, but we won't know until it is released. I would have specified it exactly as you say. I think for safety in many states they legally require brake lights on at certain regen levels and when stopped even if it is software instead of friction brakes that does the work. I often drive down roads with posted signs saying "No Engine Braking" telling people they need brake lights to be legal when they are slowing down.

Car and driver review, and others have been quite positive for the new camry LE hybrid.

More power, better fuel economy, better handling (not as good as the non hybrid), more trunk space and a pass through, better brake feel.

 

I'm sure the new oil has little to do with the higher efficiency of the new engine. The big boost of efficiency is adding di, which allows them to get a compression of 13:1, which not only makes the cyclinders more efficient, it lowers friction for a given power by allowing a lower rpm. Competitors had already done this, but, toyota has learned from them. There are other friction saving measures in the engine, which allows the lower viscosity oil. I'd be very suprised if they didn't allow 0w-20 which is a standard oil, and require a special one. You can buy enough for an oil change for less than $25.

According to the car and driver reiewe mg1, and mg2 are smaller, which should mean toyota's costs are lower. Everyone but toyota can buy lithium batteries for less than nimh today, but toyota makes their nimh. Sicne they have to change factories over and retrain people, perhaps the battery is more expensive in the short term in the LE. Still my bet would be the total hybrid components will cost toyota less than the ones in the 2017 hy cam. The higher price premium is likely because they think they can charge it and increase their profit margin. fusion and accord hybrids had advantages over the camry hybrid. This new car probably puts toyota ahead, and they can charge for it to their customers that want a well handling hybird 4 door sedan that gets over 50 mpg.

 

epa numbers will be important, but i wonder if a 50 mpg camry will be able to be hypermiled like a prius?

 

It sounds like it should be easier with the glide mode. We should know soon enough when a hyper miler can test one. Benefits of hypermiling probably are decreased on the more efficient car, just as a gen IV prius won't benefit as much from hypermiling as a gen II.

 

i think the glide mode is automatic, part of the reason for increased mpg's. sorta like the change in prius from gen 2 to 3.

 

interesting. i wonder if the mileage goes up in eco, depending on the drive.

 

With set deceleration rates, the auto glide might not not even make a difference in the tests either way.

 

The MPG cross over speed for a Prius is much higher than a Camry hybrid
the normal Camry has a higher EPA MPG cross over speed than the hybrid version as well

What this means is people will be delighted with the non hybrid and "struggling" with the hybrid to meet spec

 

What is a "MPG cross over speed"?

Curious....

 

The steady speed that you can drive on flat ground and achieve the EPA rating.

It is the most critical metric that determines how easy or hard it will be to meet the EPA rating in the real world.

 

Perhaps we need to get manufactured examples in our hands to explore the control laws and the EPA roll-down coefficients?

There will be (are) pre-production examples used for press days and loaned to automotive press. But with too rare exception, we've seen the automotive press talk about sheet-metal art and interior decorations. They don't know how or fail to demonstrate a deep dive into efficient car technology except to replicate tidbits shared by the manufacturer's team.

For my part, the EPA roll-down coefficients are the starting place because they tell us how much drag is on the car. I'm expecting multiple sets based upon the trim level.

Bob Wilson

 

Our favorite hypermiler has mapped instantaneous MPGs VRS speed for both the hybrid and standard Camry

This data plot is the basis of my statements above.

 

Good but we have different methods. I'll wait for the roll down coefficients.

Bob Wilson

 

And he stressed that it was an uncalibrated measurement that could be off by +1.5% to -10%. Gerdes stated, "Some detail is needed before even thinking about making any comparisons or conclusions with the generated graph(s)."
Then he pulled the 50mph results for the I4 ICE because they were lower than the 55mph ones due to gear hunting by the transmission on that stretch of road.

 

And this highlights the differences between our approaches:

• math model (mine) - means development of a set of equations that cover the full speed range, 5 mph to max. There is no need to measure every data point but just enough to confirm the model is accurate and most of all, not use a spreadsheet trend line that usually goes divergent outside of the data points.
• mph vs MPG benchmarks (former) - what happened is I found various 'knee in the curve' such as the following:

What I found is we can predict the drag power from a simple set of roll-down coefficients. Then combined with benchmarks, we can find the interesting control laws and vehicle limitations:

So this is my most recent, Prius Prime mph vs MPG:

The real advantage of the math approach is we can compare cars without having to benchmark them. In effect, it leads to credible product comparisons without having to spend time and money running benchmarks. Funnily enough, there are many 'free' validation reports to make sure the curves are accurate.

Bob Wilson