Featured Motortrend: Prime vs Volt (and other alt. vehicle comparisons)

As an aside, have people seen the used car prices on Leaf's? It's almost amazing, and definitely in the range for purchasing a 2nd car just for the daily commute if it fits your needs. (if you have 220V that is. <g>)

 

Could be, that does sound like a good reason for the value. The one I saw had a lot less miles and a lower price than a used Prius 3 that was a couple years older.

 

For areas of the country where electric is much cheaper than gas (most places) I firmly believe people will be willing to give up 10-20 minutes of their trip for cheaper electricity.

This is exactly why we just made a used Leaf our 2nd car. Works perfectly for the vast majority of our needs. Basically we only need our PiP for long road trips.
And we don't have 220v. 110v is plenty for the vast majority of people's needs. Unless you have a daily commute of over 60 miles most people can easily fill their pack overnight.

If the very earliest Leaf's were poorly treated in hot climates they might be down to that much. Most 2013's and up have near new range left. Can easily get 100+ miles on mine.
Low price has to do with supply and demand, like everything in life. Constant large supply due to this being a heavily leased vehicle (coming off of lease to the used car market). And low demand since most people like you guys think there is no way it would fit their needs. Also the tax credit already used on the vehicle bring it down a lot.

 

Cab forward design?

The graphic is working on the assumption that you don't want to pack the hatchbacks above the rear seat backs. It is also just a two dimensional view of a three dimensional space. Put the suitcase on the long narrow side, factor in the cargo space's width, and the Ioniq Electric might get more suitcases packed without impairing the rear view than into a Bolt, but I'd bet on getting more of them into Bolt.

The Ioniq platform was designed to accommodate a hybrid, PHEV and BEV. This means compromises exist in order to make that possible. The BEV is left placing most of the battery in the rear; losing cargo space and the independent rear. The Bolt on the other hand packs its battery under the cabin floor, with a hump under the rear seats.

The Ioniq might win when packing above the rear seats. Barring Hyundai simply ignoring the engine bay on the Electric, it will have more storage in a front trunk.

Not sure exactly what you are disagreeing with.

The Union of Concerned Scientists 40% figure are households that have multiple cars. They have another car to use in the event the BEV won't work. I'd say their 40% is high if it includes commutes that requiring the full charge of an 80 mile BEV. Perhaps I am overestimating the ability of potential BEV owners, but I would expect most will pick a car with the range to meet their commute, and have a buffer for the unplanned detour. More public chargers will allow a household's BEV to displace more gasoline miles, but charging at home is where the most amount of charging will happen.

Even with increased numbers of public chargers, the main buyer of BEVs will be multi-car households because those are more likely to have access to home charging. The majority of households that have one car in the US are households with one person, and they are likely living in an apartment or other situation in which home charging may not be possible. For a BEV to work for such people, more than simply more public charging is needed. Fast DC charging is a need, and possible at rates not available publicly yet.

That requires a larger investment than AC L2 chargers, which likely leads to slower growth. Considering the number of multi-car households out there and BEV sales rates, that is okay

 

Not me, I even hate taking the 5 minutes to fill up on gas. That's the main reason I went with a Prius in the first place, less trips to the gas station!

And gas isn't *that* much cheaper. Currently, it's about half the cost of a gallon (in Prius MPG terms) Of course different places have different costs for both gas and electric.

My commute is about 80 miles daily unless I go to lunch...

 

220V is not a must. Depends on daily range. For those that want(might be needed for cabin pre-conditioning) or do need it, their home lay out may not require a 220V installed. Got an electric dryer near the parking spot, there are EVSE's than can plug into its outlet.

Tesla had a Battery swapping station between L.A. and San Francisco. The swap only took 90 seconds, and the cost was around what it would be to fill the tank of an ICE equivalent to the Model S.

People were willing to wait in line for the Superchargers there instead.

In the biggest plug in market, state and federal incentives reduce the price of a new BEV by 10 grand, and one or two states are even more generous.

So a BEV isn't a good choice for you.
I once thought most people were decent swimmers.
Many make my mistake and conflate their individual experience to the population, and end up discounting something like the BEV's potential because of that.

 

I'm figuring 10+ hour charging times as far too long to be practical, it's that same old claustrophobia reaction with me, if I have to go somewhere, I have to have a car that will get there, no matter what. Even the Prime with it's 5h30 minutes for a full charge is right on the upper edge of what would be acceptable to me, but with it, I always have the ICE...

I'm an IT Manager where I work and I occasionally have to work some very odd and taxing hours. Last night I was called in for a switch problem (our main network switch failed, so it brought our whole LAN down), it was a couple of hours after I got home, so an EV would have failed miserably yesterday unless it had over a 200 mile range, and what if i would have got called in a third time... It doesn't happen often at all, but it's something I have to plan for.

 

Sounds like we are all in agreement then. An EV isn't a good fit for you right now. We all agree.

 

Absolutely, but it goes both ways.

I'm definitely *not* saying it doesn't make sense for anyone, just questioning general attitudes and needs. Can you imagine plugging in for 15 minutes to an hour, every couple of hundred miles, on a 3000 mile trip across the U.S., not to mention having to map all those charging stations out so you can get there, and just praying they aren't closed for some reason? There is one chargepoint station anywhere close to me -- it's 60 miles away in a place I'd never drive to willingly no less. It's just more than I think many people are willing to do.

Anyway, I was also thinking about how impatient a lot of people I know are, so it wasn't just my own situation.

Now just quick trips around town, even I would own an EV as a second car..

If we had decent public transportation, it would probably change my attitude about a lot of things, but we have what we have...

 

Yep, but you guys still haven't convinced me it will ever be a widespread thing. (well, at least until we have transmitted power -- no charging!)

 

LOL to the "not ever a widespread thing!"

 

Well, it was about a whole 1 and a half percent of car sales last year after all... (And they even counted PHEV's in that.)

Electric Vehicle Sales in the United States: 2016 Final Update

 

that's why it is deceiving.

 

What we really need for EV's to get off the ground is better batteries, higher capacity, quicker charging, lighter. I'm not quite as pessimistic as I sound -- it will come, but I think it's a bit further away, more like a couple, or more, of decades, to really be a competitor with non EV cars. Infrastructure also has to get better -- California apparently has a lot in that area, and EV's are selling there, but here, not at all.

 

It has been raining here for the last few days. Which brought up a question for pure EV drivers. If you recharge in your garage, your plug connection is dry. If you gas on the road, most gas stations have a roof over their pumps and even the car's parking spot.

What is your experience with non-home charging stations. Is the connection between cord and on-car plug kept dry? How? Just the little flap? Are most charging stations protected by overhead roofs for the charging station? The car? Can you get out and plug in and you stay dry? Most pictures I see show the stations out in the elements.

 

Any up and coming technology has its hiccups. I don't think anyone on this thread has said the technology or infrastructure is near perfect yet.

 

you can charge in the pouring rain and driving snow. i have charged in the middle of a nor'easter out in the open. i wasn't happy, but the car was fine with it.

 

agreed. gas prices can also have a large effect.

 

That's certainly good to know, thanks! I was wondering about that too.