UK Version Prius Plugin 283MPG? - how please?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Josh Kannah, May 9, 2017.

Page 2 of 3
  1. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,396
    1,489
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I'd say that would be reasonably close... for models that are sold in both regions, although that does include the Prime. (And, the EPA cycle is far more accurate than the NEDC cycle.) The problem is that a lot of models aren't sold in both regions, and most of the conventional cars that you'd compare to aren't sold here in the same powertrain configuration.
     
    #21 bhtooefr, May 10, 2017
  2. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    558
    479
    28
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The laws of physics are the same in all countries.
    (Did you notice where I am writing from?)


    Precisely.
     
    #22 Fred_H, May 10, 2017
    Bob Comer and HPrimeAdvanced like this.
  3. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    2,304
    3,519
    0
    Location:
    Anaheim, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Yavol, har, har! As Einstein (another German) would say, "Das ist relative, mein fiends(sic)! Har,

    .
     
    #23 HPrimeAdvanced, May 10, 2017
    Data Daedalus and Prodigyplace like this.
  4. Prius from Dad

    Prius from Dad Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    724
    1,115
    0
    Location:
    Toms River, NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    There is one but too far to walk every day. Yeah, I've tried to get work to "incentivize" but they are not interested. I would probably need a 300' extension to charge. o_O I just need to retire to get the miles/tank some of you are getting.
     
    #24 Prius from Dad, May 10, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced and Data Daedalus like this.
  5. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    2,304
    3,519
    0
    Location:
    Anaheim, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Call me a mooch, but do you have any buds at work that could swing by the charge station to take you to work; or is it too much of a pain in the donkey!?.
    The worst that could happen is they'd learn about your car, get one themselves and now you've got to rotate using the charger! Har, har

    .
     
    #25 HPrimeAdvanced, May 10, 2017
    Data Daedalus likes this.
  6. Prius from Dad

    Prius from Dad Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    724
    1,115
    0
    Location:
    Toms River, NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Hi mooch. :) No, only one arriving at that time. But you never know what the future holds. I'm just loving the Prime and the big difference from my 2012 v.
     
    #26 Prius from Dad, May 10, 2017
    Data Daedalus and HPrimeAdvanced like this.
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,129
    16,361
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This also highlights the issue with MPG when you get up to the higher numbers.

    283 mpg. For all intensive purposes, that's essentially 1.0L/100km.

    Now let's say the UK owner gets 1.5 L/100km. That's only an extra 500mL(0.5 qt) more for each 100 km (62 miles). But if you were to use the MPG scale, it's 188 mpg. Suddenly, it's "holy crap, I'm getting 95 mpg LOWER than the rated number", when really, it's only 0.5L per 100km.

    Anyway, if you're curious Josh & Cynthia, the Prius PHV is rated at 64 Imp. MPG in hybrid mode and 159 imp. MPGe in EV mode.

    It really depends on how you use your vehicle. The more you can use electricity, the lower your petrol consumption will be. Or put it another way, the car uses about 6kWh per full charge and folks here have been getting anywhere from 4.5-6.5 miles per kWh, that works out to 27 to 39 miles to the charge.

    Even if you were to use petrol, you're still driving a Prius which means you can expect the best fuel economy of any car in its class.
     
    #27 Tideland Prius, May 10, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced, Data Daedalus, Mendel Leisk and 1 other person like this.
  8. Josh Kannah

    Josh Kannah New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    3
    2
    0
    Location:
    London
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    thanks everyone. for the people who asked me why i am frustrated by Toyota's misleading ''non-sensical'' 283MPG for a general consumer on their brochure which translates to nothing as they cannot even explain it themselves or their dealers. so if a general consumer cannot ''use'' that 283MPG for any car buying evaluation purposes because its so far-fetched hypothetical over-exaggerated number then why publish it in their brochure in the first place


    one of you had already mentioned that the Toyota’s ‘claim’ of 283MPG is boloney lol. I am just surprised that we have governing bodies such as advertising standards organisations in UK and in EU but Toyota gets away with advertising 283MPG and still do not have to justify anything to the general consumer like me. We are not trained in lab testing or like some of you experts in mpg calculation. If I am evaluating BMW i3 and Nissan Leaf and prius plugin and another model, shouldn’t I be given atleast a realistic range of mpg so I can make an informed decision? Ok fine I do understand there is a % difference based on driving habits and local or long distance etc. but shouldn’t that be a % drop of say 20-30% from 283mpg claim. If their 283mpg is way off in the cloud 9 as I mentioned why publish and mislead a general public consumer. Does not make sense to me.

    Am I the only one who has this issue? Any naïve public who wants to read a brochure and make buying decision here? (who expect an honest car manufacturer to be upfront with their potential consumers). I am so close to filing a complaint with the UK advertising standards council ASA. To be honest, I feel I am being lied to. Take it as it is guys. I am being honest. My husband and I just want some honest truth in labelling and brochures not some madeup numbers from the lab – when I called the local Toyota dealers I get a fast talking agent who just wants to sell me something with false pretences

    isn’t there honest justice in this world anymore from manufacturing to consumer purchase transparency??


    Still frustrated Cynthia & Josh
     
    #28 Josh Kannah, May 11, 2017
    Data Daedalus likes this.
  9. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,396
    1,489
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    While I do agree that it's a useless measurement, it does seem to be the legal standard for how to report efficiency on a plug-in hybrid in Europe - start with a full battery, continue until the battery runs out, then continue for 25 km further, and report the fuel consumption over that distance. Therefore, an ASA complaint won't do anything for you.

    I'd say that the complaint should be directed towards non-governmental organizations lobbying for cleaner transportation, such as ICCT, so they can provide pressure on your regulators to reform the reporting of plug-in hybrid efficiency to something more in line with the US standard, where energy consumption in charge depleting mode, energy consumption in charge sustaining mode, and range (both all-electric and overall) in charge depleting mode are all quoted together.
     
    #29 bhtooefr, May 11, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced, Data Daedalus and Fred_H like this.
  10. Bob Comer

    Bob Comer Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    708
    459
    0
    Location:
    South Carolina low country
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Which do you want, sweating through your shirt, or getting *2* miles less on EV alone. I know which one I will take, and it's not even close, I run the A/C pretty much year round in my 2010 Prius. (I do use ECO mode though) :)
     
    #30 Bob Comer, May 11, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced and Data Daedalus like this.
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,129
    16,361
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Well you can always use the US' EPA numbers. We did that in Canada for 6 years (between 2008 and 2013) before we adjusted our testing methods to line up with the EPA's. Our numbers used to be similar to NEDC's numbers (I think we were using similar testing methods).

    The EPA changed their method in 2008. Transport Canada changed it for 2014.

    Just ignore NEDC and use the EPA.
     
    #31 Tideland Prius, May 11, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced likes this.
  12. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,874
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    Bob, always use the A/C if you are hot. Because if you are too hot, the HV Battery is too hot, and the A/C cools both. Being too hot is the failure mode most likely to occur for the battery.
     
    #32 JimboPalmer, May 11, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced, Data Daedalus and Prodigyplace like this.
  13. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    12,285
    11,620
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    XLE
    The UK would need to convert from US gallons to Imperial gallons, though. Perhaps using the Canadian numbers would make more sense?
     
    #33 Prodigyplace, May 11, 2017
  14. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    558
    479
    28
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    European laws require Toyota to publish those "far-fetched hypothetical over-exaggerated" numbers, based on the unrealistic official European test.

    European laws forbid Toyota to advertise more realistic numbers.
     
    #34 Fred_H, May 11, 2017
    Data Daedalus, HPrimeAdvanced, giora and 1 other person like this.
  15. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    292
    242
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    This kind of reporting of MPG numbers should be illegal. It's pretending that electricity is an unlimited, free, GHG-free resource. Which is bollocks. Regardless of the test parameters, the MPG rating cannot be higher than 133 which you can only achieve if you use no gasoline.
     
    #35 Prashanta, May 11, 2017
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    12,285
    11,620
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    XLE
    My Prius Liftback shows 199.9 at times... :D
     
    #36 Prodigyplace, May 11, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced likes this.
  17. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    558
    479
    28
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    #37 Fred_H, May 11, 2017
    Prius from Dad likes this.
  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,558
    10,331
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I believe it is actually required by current law.
    Why not?

    The UK, along with nearly the entire rest of the world (except Canada, which re-joined the U.S. on this recently) uses a different MPG rating system that produces significantly higher scores than our EPA system. On top of that, the UK uses a different (larger) gallon than does the U.S. Together, those factors should compound to produce a rating number much higher than the US-EPA 133 MPGe rating.
     
    #38 fuzzy1, May 11, 2017
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,129
    16,361
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    In Japan, they usually take 70% or 75% of the value.

    So it's rated at 68.7km, they'll mentally calculate that you'll get 48-51km in real life.

    Ditto the 37.2km/L (87 US mpg) in HV mode. 75% = 27.9km/L (65.6 US mpg).
     
    #39 Tideland Prius, May 11, 2017
  20. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    292
    242
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    That's (likely) not how they arrived at 283 mpg. UK MPG ratings are generous that generosity alone can't double the MPG (right?!). They must have made a certain set of assumptions about usage patterns where majority of the driving is done in electric mode. Then you divide the total range (electric + hybrid) by the gasoline consumed to get the stupidly large number. If you use the same criteria for pure electrics, you'd get ∞ mpg.
     
    #40 Prashanta, May 11, 2017
    Prius from Dad likes this.
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 3