nitrogen tires

“One end of the generator was destroyed in the fire, mostly because of the initial explosion of the hydrogen gas,” fire marshal Robert Marshall said."

Explosion shuts down Pittsburg power plant indefinitely

 

I only put neutronium in my tires.

 

TMR-JWAP beat me to it this time.

N2 is about biggest practical molecule to use for tires, so N2 leaks much more slowly than O2.
However, O2 is only 21% of air, so N2 is nice just not a huge benefit (per Consumer Reports tests).
I would happily use 100% N2 if it was free and convenient for me, which it never is (although COSTCO has it). I wish more places like COSTCO put N2 in new tires.

For my bike tires (and sometimes in my Prius spare tire as a partial fill) I have been using an expensive gas called STAYFIL which is a huge molecule that does not leak much. N2 would make sense for the spare tire too, as I say, if it was handy to use, which it just about never is.

Re: H2
My middle name is H2, I've worked with it so much in my life. Not for tires though.
>>We are getting into an H2 politics argument here, which I shall abstain in a tire thread.

 

“The fire was on the generator section, not on the steam turbine itself,” said Brett Kerr, director of external affairs for Calpine, which owns the plant. “In the steam turbine, hydrogen is used as a cooling unit in the generator. Friction at that speed produces a lot of heat.”

I hate seeing quotes like this, and this guy works for Calpine...sad...

 

Since the generator is cooled by hydrogen, why couldn't it cause the generator to explode? (See bold text n the quote)
Sad indeed!

 

"The problem with regular air and the reason it is such a poor inflation medium is that it also contains about 20% oxygen. Everyone knows that oxygen is essential for human survival and the well being of almost every other living organism. However, it's also quite destructive to almost everything else, think "oxidation." Nitrogen in Tires. The Benefit of Nitrogen in Car, Auto, and Truck Tires

I find the idea of pressure retention to be idiotic. Tires leak so slowly that I change their pressure due to the changing of the seasons (average temperatures) more than from leak rates. In fact, adding air at the beginning of winter to account for the cold temperatures coming up generally requires me to bleed air come spring time because they leak too slowly during the winter to get down to where they need to be during summer.

 

Sorry - I was referring to the "friction" part of the quote...

 

All flammable gases and liquids can explode if vapors are mixed with air and the air/fuel is ignited, and even static can set off the mixture. Normally an explosion scenario involves flammable gas leaking into air space. The key ingredients are flammable vapors + air. Also on start-up if someone accidentally brings in the flammable gas into the pipes before the air is removed. It's a very powerful explosion called a detonation (exactly what happens inside your vehicle's pistons).

 

In the proper ratios (4-74% H2 in air). Also, see post #4.

 

The air being (infrequently) added to our tires is usually via a half-decent floor-standing bicycle pump. I've come to grok it's foibles pretty good now.

When I first got it I found it inordinately hard to push the connector onto the valve stem. I'd be pushing straight down with all my might, then lifting a lever to lock it on. As often as not, I'd find it was NOT pushed on far enough, and I had to try again.

Then I got cagey: found the trick was to rock the connector, push one side, then the other, pushing it on in little steps. Easy as pie now. And it's got a semi-accurate built-in gauge, with a predictable error. Roughly 10 strokes brings one of our tires up roughly 2 pounds, very manageable and predictable.

Anyway, I mostly use this pump, and very occasionally use the (still free!) air pump at Chevron stations in our area. However, of late it seems like the station pumps are getting very anemic: barely able to raise pressures. Anyone else notice this?

Goes without saying, but both my air sources are just atmospheric, but I'd suppose if you start with nitrogen fill and never have a catostrophic air loss requiring near complete refill, the majority of the air in the tire would continue to be nitrogen.

Our OEM tires are still on the car, and our snows were aired up at a Toyota dealership. As far as I know neither was nitrogen fill, and I've little or no problems with chronic air loss with either. Think this nitrogen fill is overrated.

 

Interesting, but the newspaper report is not really telling us exactly what went wrong here. It would not make sense for the generator to explode unless they did something wrong, got air in there somehow.

As expected below, no timetable for saying cause which is under investigation. Sounds like possible mechanical fault root cause though. We should not really use initial press reports for anything definitive on causes of accidents.

Calpine power plant to reopen after explosion

 

Air is all around us. Putting the SAME air inside the tires as what is OUTSIDE them does NOTHING to promote any extra oxidation or corrosion. Especially since the inside of the rims is not bare metal. You have bought into a myth.

Now.....the "slower to leak out", through at least a half inch of material that is generally NOT permeable to any gas......is an even bigger myth......so I agree with the second part of your post.

 

The stealership where we bought our Prime had a sticker on each car on their lot with a long list of extras that came with every car. Most, like the nitrogen tire fill, were totally worthless (free towing when that's already included in the 2-year Toyota free plan & on almost everyone's insurance, etc.). The bargain price of just $795. I just looked at that and said, "I'm not paying for this." And I didn't.

The only advantage of the nitrogen fill is that it is dry. A compressed air system with a good air dryer has an equal advantage. I've had one set of tires filled with moist air where I could hear the ice crackling inside them on a freezing day. Didn't hurt how they drove nor any added corrosion on the wheel.

 

I agree that oxydation is not a legitimate concern, but that is why people try to sell you nitrogen. I mean, tires do oxidize, but so what?

 

Someone doesn't know much about history if you think hydrogen is safe

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

and yet, they want us to drive cars with a high pressure tank full of the stuff, and lithium batteries.
i'd much rather stick with gasoline, much less flammable, thank you very much.

 

The Hindenburg disaster did more to (erroneously) give Hydrogen a bad name than any event in history.

Shooting a high-pressure hydrogen tank with a 50 caliber bullet:

Shooting a propane cylinder and a gasoline cylinder with a rifle bullet (ignore the hydride test as we aren't talking about that):

Bottom line, propane explodes, gasoline leaks and burns, hydrogen just leaks with no fire.

 

Standard air is 78% nitrogen. Mixing air and nitrogen is no problem, as it's that way already.

 

If it was me, I would just use regular air to refill.
It makes sense to start with N2 in the new tires (if available - I would not pay much), and then regular air after that. Keep in mind your tires are constantly leaking a little more O2 than N2 so the N2 will concentrate over time (which is one argument against N2).

If N2 were somehow cheap and convenient to refill with N2 then I'd use it. Or if you felt you really wanted to go all out on it. then you pay for N2 refill (not sure if COSTCO gives free N2 top offs). Keep in mind you are probably getting a 5% O2 anyways in the refill - depending on the supplier. You will rarely be totally O2-free inside there.

I think moisture (H2O vapor) leaks out fairly fast too (smaller molecule) and is not really too much of a concern except for race car drivers. I usually refill at home and pick a lower humidity day, but that is not critical.