1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Prius Prime Plus in my hands

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by bwilson4web, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,518
    14,128
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Sorry to barge in with my ancient PiP, but so many concepts overlap. Right now, I'm kinda wishing I had your EV range. All winter, my work commute has been easily within my EV range. I usually would have over a mile left and could charge at work and at home. Didn't have to start the ICE all week. But now, it's stinkin' hot and there's no way I'm driving w/o the air conditioner. So now, if I drive till I run out of EV, the ICE starts up about 500 feet from home. It'll be worse when it really gets hot. So, I'm left with driving to the highway in EV, then going HV once on the highway (50 mph typically) till the engine warms up, and then EV the rest of the way home. I'm still pondering if there's a better way to do it. I might even have to find a longer route just to get the engine warmed up since I've heard so many war stories of people not letting them warm up.
     
    Nic Steussy likes this.
  2. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    602
    278
    0
    Location:
    SW US
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    I think you mentioned the underlying rationale earlier of optimizing cost/mile starting from your local electricity and liquid fuel rates. People should realize that your results are unlikely to extend to their locales, and other choices like pollution reduction or less oil use are not part of this exercise.
     
    giora and bwilson4web like this.
  3. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    730
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    It seems you are doing it right, my only suggestion is, if the weather is not too hot, to run the ventilation without A/C. The estimate will drop same amount but the actual will be a bit longer with ventilation only, which may be enough in your case to make it all EV.
     
    #403 giora, Apr 5, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
    GT4Prius and jerrymildred like this.
  4. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    602
    278
    0
    Location:
    SW US
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Other thoughts:

    1.Keep the car as cool as possible while parked. Windows cracked open, outside shade, and front windshield sun block help a lot
    2. Make the drive with a big cup of ice water
     
  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,518
    14,128
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I have noticed that the range estimate doesn't care if you're running the fan on its lowest setting or running the A/C full blast. I might give that a shot today. It's already 87 with a feels like of 98 and it's not even 1:00.

    I got vent shades so I can leave the windows down a little. I also try to remember to go out and run the a/c a little bit before I unplug and go. But it doesn't get all that cool. I might try running it twice and see what happens. We only have two outlets at work. One is in full sun and the other is partly shaded but right next to an air conditioner compressor. :mad: And I do use sun screens. I toy with the idea of a canopy, but the last three we had here all got torn up by storms, so not a good long term solution. I think the real fix is to build a for real car port out there. But that's out of my reach right now.
     
    Prius from Dad and giora like this.
  6. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    602
    278
    0
    Location:
    SW US
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Full sun can be mitigated a lot by facing the car towards where the sun will be in the hour you leave, using a good sun block on the windshield and cracking windows. You can come pretty close to ambient temperatures in the car and in the materiels. Your subjective comfort will be much better, and AC use to remove retained heat much lower.

    Florida is always going to be a bear on hot days due to the humidity, but you can still mitigate AC demand quite a bit.

    Good Luck!
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  7. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    730
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    At least the battery feels like 87 when it is 87:)
    Don't hesitate to use A/C when it is 98 (and feels like...) it is good for the battery as well:)
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  8. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,518
    14,128
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Giving really serious thought to the Canvasworks front & rear sunshades sold in the PC store. Seem like about the only place to buy them other than direct.

    ABSOLUTELY!! :)
     
  9. Prius from Dad

    Prius from Dad Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    724
    1,115
    0
    Location:
    Toms River, NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
     
  10. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,518
    14,128
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    @Prius from Dad -- PiP Base doesn't have those features. That's why I felt a little like an interloper with my original comment. ;) But I do run the A/C before unplugging and set the timer on the charger to finish as close as possible to departure time.
     
    Prius from Dad likes this.
  11. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    530
    412
    0
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Excel
    Yes it's a multi factorial equation. Also a relevant but in practice un quantifiable I.e. unknown factor is Traction battery life. (Because estimates of capacity deterioration over life cycle vary so widely).

    My electricity costs are so very much lower than fuel costs that using EV as much as possible makes most financial sense, excluding the issue of battery life. Battery life is important though and could affect the used value of the vehicle. On the other hand, better, higher charge density batteries may be available in a few years at prices that might make it worthwhile to replace the traction battery anyhow! (To improve range OR cargo space).

    Suggest it would be more helpful though to show gallons per 100 miles or similar rather than mpg, as I suspect that 45 vs 65 mpg is maybe not as big a proprtionate drop as it at first sight looks.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #411 GT4Prius, Apr 6, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Cold-soak, temperature 46F, I used EV to reach a route to run safely at 40 mph:
    [​IMG]
    • first 0.6 miles - car dips into EV to sustain speed, nice!
    • 0.6 - 2.1 miles - car warms up engine
    • 2.1 - 5.0 miles - warmed up car, excellent 50 MPG
    • 1.4, 2.7, 4.7 miles - three complete stops, need a better route
    • 4.1-4.3 miles - traffic slow-down
    • route is not a level flat as I would prefer
    The total route is 10 miles (indicated), 10.2 miles Goggle (true):
    [​IMG]

    I've only plotted the first 5 miles.
    [​IMG]

    Raw Data:
    miles MPG mph SOC%
    1 0.0 0.0 0 0.98
    2 0.1 28.6 37 0.98
    3 0.2 43.0 40 0.97
    4 0.3 50.9 40 0.97
    5 0.4 50.9 40 0.97
    6 0.5 55.7 40 0.96
    7 0.6 59.0 40 0.96
    8 0.7 51.4 40 0.96
    9 0.8 47.3 40 0.96
    10 0.9 45.0 39 0.96
    11 1.0 41.0 41 0.96
    12 1.1 42.0 40 0.97
    13 1.2 42.5 40 0.97
    14 1.3 42.9 40 0.97
    15 1.4 41.7 28 0.98
    16 1.5 39.0 39 0.98
    17 1.6 38.3 40 0.98
    18 1.7 36.6 41 0.98
    19 1.8 35.8 40 0.99
    20 1.9 35.8 40 0.99
    21 2.0 35.8 40 0.99
    22 2.1 37.8 40 0.99
    23 2.2 39.8 39 0.99
    24 2.3 41.8 39 0.98
    25 2.4 43.8 39 0.98
    26 2.5 45.7 40 0.97
    27 2.6 47.8 40 0.97
    28 2.7 50.6 7 0.97
    29 2.8 47.1 36 0.97
    30 2.9 45.2 39 0.97
    31 3.0 45.2 39 0.97
    32 3.1 43.7 40 0.97
    33 3.2 44.0 39 0.98
    34 3.3 45.5 39 0.98
    35 3.4 47.0 39 0.98
    36 3.5 48.5 39 0.97
    37 3.6 48.1 39 0.97
    38 3.7 46.7 40 0.97
    39 3.8 47.4 39 0.97
    40 3.9 48.7 38 0.97
    41 4.0 50.1 39 0.97
    42 4.1 51.4 35 0.97
    43 4.2 51.6 33 0.97
    44 4.3 49.5 38 0.97
    45 4.4 50.0 39 0.97
    46 4.5 51.2 40 0.96
    47 4.6 52.5 40 0.96
    48 4.7 53.7 39 0.96
    49 4.8 55.3 19 0.96
    50 4.9 52.2 38 0.96
    51 5.0 52.2 40 0.97

    [​IMG]
    Between miles 2.0 and 2.7, the battery SOC decreased by 2%. The data suggests 100% SOC ~= 0.125 gallons of gas in fuel savings or 80% ~= 0.100 gallons.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #412 bwilson4web, Apr 7, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
    Nic Steussy likes this.
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    Re-ran the cold-soak, warm-up test tonight, 40F, and confirmed:
    • 0.0-0.6 miles - car still draws down the traction battery showing good MPG. Started at 67%, rolling at 40 mph into test route.
    • 0.6-2.0 miles - engine is running and sucking gas to a minimum MPG at 2.0 miles. This includes recharging the traction battery.
    • 2.0-10.2 miles - there was a poorly implemented PID that allowed the SOC to vary from 63%-67%. Because this is a much flatter route.
    I've got to take a nap before assembling the data including the route and altitude histogram. One late thought, I was running the car in "Normal" mode, not "ECO" or "Power." It may be if I'd used either one, the wandering SOC might have been curbed. Sad to say, it is unlikely we'll see similar, cold weather testing.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #413 bwilson4web, Apr 8, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    This is snapshot of Tire Rack specs for Ecopia replacement tires:
    Type Ecopia Ecopia Nano Ecopia Ecopia Ecopia Ecopia Ecopia
    1 SIZE 195/65R15 195/65R15 195/65R15 205/50R17 215/55R16 235/45R17 205/65R15 215/50R17
    2 UTQG 640 A A 640 A A 300 A B 640 A A 640 A A 640 A A 640 A A 640 A A
    3 MAX. 1356 lbs. 1356 lbs. 1279 lbs. 1433 lbs. 1433 lbs. 1477 lbs. 1709 lbs. 1521 lbs.
    4 PSI 44 psi 44 psi 44 psi 50 psi 44 psi 51 psi 50 psi 50 psi
    5 Tread 11/32" 11/32" 9.7/32" 10/32" 10/32" 10/32" 10/32" 10/32"
    6 Weight 18 lbs. 18 lbs. 17 lbs. 20 lbs. 20 lbs. 22 lbs. 21 lbs. 22 lbs.
    7 Range 5.5-7" 5.5-7" 6-8" 5.5-7.5" 6-7.5" 7.5-9" 5.5-7.5" 6-7.5"
    8 Rim (W) 6" 6" 6.5" 6.5" 7" 8" 6" 7"
    9 Sect. (W) 8" 8" 8.1" 8" 8.9" 9.3" 8" 9"
    10 Tread (W) 5.9" 5.9" 6.1" 6.4" 6.7" 7.6" 6.2" 6.8"
    11 Diam. 25" 25" 25" 25.1" 25.3" 25.4" 25.5" 25.5"
    12 Revs. 833 833 832 830 824 822 817 817
    13 Country US US JP MX US US US MX
    14 % offset 0.1% 0.1% 0.0% -0.2% -1.0% -1.2% -1.8% -1.8%
    15 % error 1.7% 1.7% 1.6% 1.4% 0.6% 0.4% -0.2% -0.2%

    • 300 A B - OEM tire, ~30k miles, "A" grip (good), "B" temp (middle)
    • 640 A A - replacements, ~64k miles, "A" grip (good), "A" temp (best)
    • any of these tires should work to replace the Nano when they soon wear out
    • my choice: 205/65R15 - 50 psi, corrects the GPS vs odometer/speedometer error
    Bob Wilson
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    The car gave 57.6 MPG @65 mph, 75F:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    john1701a likes this.
  16. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    491
    297
    0
    Location:
    Lincoln, NE
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Bob Wilson[/QUOTE]

    So did you change alignment spec.
    Running 50 PSI
    My car is hard to keep straight if I go over 43 PSI...on concrete highway where groves are in line with travel
    Especially rear end

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  17. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    491
    297
    0
    Location:
    Lincoln, NE
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Any way i have on order Michelin low rolling resistance tires....Bridgestone are worst tire i have ever come to experience driving ....


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I do change the alignment into four-wheel perfect. I did this with our 2003 Prius but also discovered the slightly over sized and heavier tires solved a straight-line, stability problem in our old, 2003 Prius.

    Yes, I have driven the grooved, concrete highways around Chicago. Interesting but not a problem with our 03 Prius after the tire improvements.
    The brand is not a problem with me (perhaps excepting GM.)

    My requirements are:
    • low-rolling resistance - tested such as the two, YouTube videos showing roll-down tests
    • highest pressure - reduces the rolling resistance
    • true Revs/Mile - so the instruments are as accurate as possible
    Bob Wilson
     
    #418 bwilson4web, Apr 15, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
    HPrimeAdvanced likes this.
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Allergies were really bad this past week and I lost three of five work days. I made it through Friday but there was that gagging incident in the office. Still, I managed to get to the favorite drug store and a late lunch. But then the flaming eyes, especially the right eye became exceptionally painful and I was 8 miles from home.

    So I chose the low traffic route home and drove back using dynamic cruise control. One of the primary optical functions is maintain a safe distance and speed monitoring. The dynamic cruise control worked perfectly. I reached home with no drama and confident I was not a traffic risk.

    Without dynamic cruise control and lane departure alarm, it would have been a much riskier drive. One that I might have considered ... 'time to call a cab.'

    I got home with several eye washes and took a nap. Whatever was causing the grief, some sort of allergy crusty-nasty dissolved or migrated to nirvana. I don't care as much as the right eye was no longer hurting . . . and I was home to take care of my wife.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #419 bwilson4web, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
    jerrymildred and Prodigyplace like this.
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    "Do as I say, not as I do."​

    I have always advocated 'back-in' parking at your destination. You've arrived, well rested and ready to safely back into the parking spot using all of your faculties, a well warmed car, and back-in parking is easily handled. In contrast, if you back out in a rush or distracted by your trip goal . . . bad things can happen . . . like it did last night.

    I wandered to the left of the driveway and took out my own mailbox and a big part of the post. I didn't see it until later but the passenger-side, rear quarter panel is slightly disconnected, there is a gap. I don't see any other damage but there it is ... potentially a repair bill and future insurance rate hike.

    Soon as I get my TIS account fixed, I'll download the body repair manual and take a look at what it takes to re-install the panel. The tail light is fine, just the panel 'popped out.'

    Now my lame excuse is parking head-in made it easier to plug-in the car. But that is a lame excuse. Of course, 'why didn't you used the backup camera?' Hindsight is always 20x20 so later today, I wander down by the creek and give myself a good talkin' to. I will fix the problem but darn, am I embarrassed.

    Pictures to follow.

    The only good news is enough of the post remains so I won't have to put in a new one. The replacement will be white-on-white, easier to see in the dark. And of course, I'll only back-in both cars, the BMW i3-REx already, but now the Prius Prime.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #420 bwilson4web, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    Tideland Prius and bisco like this.