Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

Who knows what service life Hyundai built into the clutches. I would imagine at a bare minimum 200k miles (wild guess) since the computer shifts the gears. I did take a look at the service schedule for the Ioniq and it does specify clutch fluid replacement every 22.5k miles. I wonder how much that will cost or if it can be DIYed.

I've got the precursor to that ZF 8HP tranny in my Passat, the 5HP. It's still plugging along at 360k miles, grim torque converter, clutches, and all!

 

I don't know why . . . . but I'm suddenly thinking of Rube Goldberg - and you still have to add the ICE into the mix

.... I suppose complexity is one way to skin the cat. sheesh
Then there's the 'K.I.S.S' principal;

Tesla has its own set of warts ... but drive train complexity aint one of 'em. Boom, that's the whole shebang
.

 

My brother had a 2000 Accord with the V6; a model with known transmission issues. It had major transmission work twice, but was also in at least one major flood.

Poor design or production defect can happen in any car system. Not just automatic transmissions. A few years after the vintage of the brother's Accord, Toyota thought they could save some costs by reducing the number of coolant channels in their 2.5L. When the number of cases of oil sludging started adding up, Toyota had to stop blaming the owners.

I've dropped the tranny pan for fluid and filter changes on a couple of cars. There is denfinitely wearable components in there.

My rule of thumb for when an auto company starts saying "lifetime of the car" is 10 years or 15k miles, but they could mean as low as 120k miles or less in markets where cars are driven less miles per year.

Is clutch fluid the same thing as the transmission fluid? Hyundai has had DCTs out for several years now. The 2011 Veloster might have been the first here.

 

Hyundai calls it "engine clutch actuator fluid" in the maintenance schedule.

 

That sure is more of a mouthful then simply saying 'thin oil'.

Our Prius' CVT requires a pump to get its fluid out. Kind of a hassle, even for us diy'ers.
.

 

My TDI with the DSG (Doesn't Shift Good) required fluid and filter change at 40K miles and it was a PITA and expensive.

The Gen III CVT had to be about the easiest fluid change to do that I've ever done.

 

Can you elaborate? I'm trying to do my homework on these DSG boxes.

 

On which part, the fluid change or that the DSG in my VW was a POS?

 

LOL! How it drove.

 

That sounds like it is just hydraulic fluid to operate the clutch. Poking around I see that it is DOT 3 brake fluid.

It was a VW, but there is a lawsuit against Hyundai over its DCT

In terms of use in everyman cars, DCTs are still relatively new. They don't have the history behind them that step automatics do. Then there is the possibility that a person simply won't like it because it is different than the automatic they are use too.

I personally can't say, but despite being an automatic in not needing the driver to shift gears, a DCT is physically different than a step automatic. There will differences in the operation that some will perceive.

What I've read is that the difference is more noticable when at low speeds. In the case of hybrids, like the Ioniq, use of the motor for propulsion at those speeds could mean that differences seen in an ICE with a DCT won't be apparent.

 

The DCT on current Porsche cars is called a PDK. In use since about 2011 if memory serves. Lots of cars, miles, HP against those clutches.

 

Did you read the words that say

"The most popular form found in automobilesis the hydraulic automatic transmission. Similar but larger devices are also used for heavy-duty commercial and industrial vehicles and equipment. This system uses a fluid coupling in place of a friction clutch, and accomplishes gear changes by hydraulically locking and unlocking a system of planetary gears. "

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

The DCT has been around in racing for longer. In that field, and the high end car market, cost can come second to getting it right.

VW has had problems with their DSG; same of Ford with their DCT. Hyundai recalled the Tuscon over a DCT issue, and there is a class action suit for other models with a DCT. I admit to only hearing of these in passing, and don't have the knowledge to call whether these are major issues or not. The new car model having issues phenomenon can extend to car subsystems, like the transmission.

Then people could simply not like how a DCT works, and consider it an issue of the transmission.

Did you read beyond that?
"To effect gear changes, one of two types of clutches or bands are used to hold a particular member of the planetary gearset motionless, while allowing another member to rotate, thereby transmitting torque and producing gear reductions or overdrive ratios."

The clutch of the manual transmission is replaced by the torque convertor, a type of fluidic coupling, on a traditional automatic. In the manual, gear changes are physically done by the driver. In the automatic, various types of clutches and/or bands (depends on the specific design) handle the physical gear changes. They are operated by hydraulic pressure.

 

I was responding to what you said.
"Standard non DSG auto transmissions for cars don't usually have clutch plates. They use fluid coupling, not friction plates. Completely different and not comparable."

 

I owned two DSGs, the first was ok, but it tended to lug the engine at certain speeds. The second I owned had a problem at slow speeds where it couldn't decide between first and second gear and would have pretty violent shifts between them. The VW tech agreed with me, a VW rep said I was making the car shift like that.

After numerous complaints to VW in Wolfsburg, a drivetrain engineer was sent over to take a ride with me and darn near had his neck snapped when I slowed down to go over a speedbump and sped up again. "Vas dat vot you were speakink of ?". After a day, the verdict came back, normal.

When the VW customer liaison got involved, we agreed to try putting in one more Mechatronics Unit (valve body) in. This was the third one. After a week or so, the jolt came back along with a squealing noise. I drove the car to a Toyota dealer and traded it in on a Prius.

 

Poetic justice: we can only hope bought by someone who turned down a used Prius for that 'hot wheels' diesel. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

Or six if you include the one on the lock-up torque converter.

Whereas Toyota got their first power split transmission right the first time, and got the four or five (or more?) models and variations that followed right too.

Why? Is your drain plug stuck? Ours drains very nicely without a pump.

 

They've have had problems with their hybrid system.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20140212/COPY01/302129954/toyota-recalls-prius-models-to-update-software
"The global callback extends to 1.9 million Prius models, making it the biggest recall of the world's best-selling hybrid. About 713,000 of those cars are in North America, and another 997,000 are in Japan. The recall affects 130,000 more cars in Europe."

Specifics for this recall and others can be found here.
Toyota Prius Recalls | ToyotaProblems.com
"Summary: Toyota is recalling certain model year 2010 through 2014 Prius vehicles. In the affected vehicles, the Intelligent Power Module (IPM) inside the inverter module (a component of the hybrid system) contains transistors that may become damaged from high operating temperatures. If this occurs, various warning lamps will be illuminated on the instrument panel and the vehicle will have reduced power allowing it to only drive a short distance.

Consequence: The vehicle may enter a fail-safe/limp-home mode that limits the drivability of the vehicle. The hybrid system could also shut down completely resulting in a vehicle stall, increasing the risk of a crash."

 

Not directly it doesn't. I think he's trying to make the bigger point that Toyota isn't infallible. The eCVT ain't the greatest thing since sliced bread. Makes me want to gouge my eyes out climbing hills on the highway with the cruise control engaged, the engine screams like a banshee. Of course noodling around town at 20 mph with your nose in the HSI, you wouldn't notice behavior like that.