Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

That was why I suggested getting the downloaded data. I believe it includes the passenger, luggage volumes, and the MPG. Rank the cars by similar size to the Ioniq and then from worst-to-best MPG. There is your sales target. Unfortunately, there is one fly in the ointment.

Finding them when they can understand what you're talking about. I recommend spending more time at bars and talking about cars. Now if we could figure out how to turn under-paid, over-worked, bar tenders into car salesmen ('What could go wrong?' - Clarkson.)

Bob Wilson

 

Source: http://wardsauto.com/engines/toyota-ioniq-not-impacting-prius-yet-more-hybrid-cuvs-studied

AUSTIN, TX – Toyota is not slashing pricing just yet on the Prius hybrid in the wake of Hyundai undercutting the car with its new Ioniq hybrid.
. . .
“They’ve still got to get launched and get some awareness and get that product on the map, so (we are) not too worried about (their pricing advantage) short-term, but it’s something we always have to keep an eye on as we get a little further along in the year,” Bill Fay, group vice president-Toyota Div., tells WardsAuto here during a Toyota C-HR media preview.​

Apparently Toyota is not responding to the cry "Wolf."

Bob Wilson

 

toyota can afford to go low if they have to, but will they want to in todays market?

 

so Toyota are watching in case Hyundai do start to make progress in the hybrid market?

its a sensible approach, short term watch and see but don't react unless there is a requirement due to losing market share to the newbee

but leave it too late and you may have given the newbee time to get a foot hold

the other thing I how long will Hyundai leave it until they raise their prices??

 

Toyota could just be quiet about it. Two different starting prices can be found on the Prius page, but that could be from a 2016 to 2017 price or other cause.

I don't think Hyundai will need to raise their price. The Ioniq Blue has less features than a base Prius; that's how it undercuts Toyota's price.

 

The Ioniq has landed! I didn't get to drive it but I did sit in it and it feels larger than the prius inside especially the back seat.

 

i'm sure toyota recognizes that they now have many years ahead of them to prepare for competition when these vehicles may actually matter.

 

Thanks! I zoomed on the Monroney sticker and did not see 'collision avoidance' or 'dynamic cruise control' which is a deal killer for me.

We sold our paid-off, Gen-3 Prius because it did not have it. We almost didn't buy that Gen-3 Prius because the 'advanced' package required a $6k model upgrade and $2k for the technology, an extra $8k. We also passed on a 2016 Prius Level 2 ECO because it also lacked these safety features that six months later were standard on our Prius Prime Plus, the lowest trim.

The Ioniq appears to be a step up from their Sonata hybrid. But some of us think 'safety sells' and perhaps Hyundai will get a clue.

Bob Wilson

 

I did get to test drive a Prius Prime, a Sonata Hybrid and a Sonata PHEV. I was disappointed in the Prime. I think when the Lease on my Camry is up I might just be getting a Sonata PHEV.

 

good luck with that!

 

That doesn't tell us anything. Care to share any detail ?

 

The dynamic cruise, lane keeping, and auto braking only costs $1000 more on that model for those that want it. So Hyundai isn't trying to jack you like Toyota did. The SEL has blind spot and cross traffic monitoring standard; got to get a Four for that on a Prius still.

 

I drove an advanced trim Prime. I did like the smooth ride and it is a very cool looking car in person. What disappointed me the most was the legroom in the back, it has shrunk quite a bit from the gen 3 Prius. It was also very loud with the ICE running and felt gutless when merging on the freeway. The dash had an uncomfortable amount of glare from all the chrome trim and the big screen was unreadable if any sun was on it.

 

this is where the US models of the Ioniq have been nobbled by Hyundai, all other markets smart cruise, lkas, AEB etc. are all std equipment across the board, in the US you have to pay extra for tech / ultimate packs to get what everyone else get included

but

the starting prices for the various trim levels are lower, so is that a smart move by Hyundai or not for the US market

 

NR427 - Inasmuch as I have never seen Prime, I appreciate your assessment.

 

Actually I think Toyota finally responded my refusal to buy a Prius without them. Past Prius owner surveys indicated we're generally an older, more well off, group and I suspect as a group we are perhaps more safety aware. Given older bodies, eyes, and reaction times, it makes sense.

Although I can appreciate the blind spot and cross traffic monitoring, dynamic cruise control and collision avoidance are a 24x7 safety feature. But the Prime appears to have improved legacy blind spot monitoring, the mirrors and driver behavior.

The Prime outside, rear view mirrors are significantly improved with a wider view angle than I remember from our earlier Gen-3 and even the BMW i3-REx. The modified hexagon gives enough view to handle the adjacent lane and the lane change warning system conditions the driver to signal lane changes and clear them.

Bob Wilson

 

Hyundai's appeal early on was for being low price. As their reliability and reputation grew, they didn't abandon that low price appeal. The Ioniq Blue is just the SE trim of other models; the fewest available features without any options. The better fuel economy ratings is mostly from cutting weight for more favorable EPA test parameters. Which is something the Prius 2 Eco does, too. Hyundai just isn't charging you more for less stuff.

I remember when ABS wasn't standard, and the only way of getting it on a car at a certain brand's dealer lot was to opt for the V6 model. I hate it when a manufacturer forces you into buying other stuff at a jacked up price to get what you want too. Hyundai themselves does it; you have to get a Elantra Limited in order to get the package with all these safety aids. Toyota making them standard for little to no cost just highlights how much they were jacking people just last year.

They aren't in the case of the Ioniq though, and this might be because Toyota's move in making the features standard. Or maybe it was the other way around; Toyota probably has more insight into what Hyundai is planning, and vice versa, than us Western Devils on an English speaking forum.

To get those advanced safety features on the Ioniq, you have to get the SEL and a package. We'll have to wait to see at were the prices being paid settles at, but in MSRP of the Ioniq to match the Prius safety features is only a few hundred more. The difference to get those things on the Elantra is just around $600. The Ioniq with those safety features also has a couple of ones that would cost thousands more to get on a Prius. The heated front seats with power adjustable driver's in the Ioniq SEL will also cost thousands more to get in a Prius, and are likely a bigger buyer draw than LED headlights.

With the initial complaint being about a manufacturer forcing a buyer to pay thousands more of features they don't want in order to just have the option to get the safety features desired, why does actually matter if those features are now standard or not, when the the like to like cost is the same?

 

I started with the posted Monroney sticker which is a great way to figure out what is standard and optional. Since TSS-P or its equal is a mandatory requirement for our family, it was one of the first things I checked. I look forward to seeing a Monroney sticker with the Ioniq equivalent of TSS-P or at a minimum, dynamic cruse control and collision avoidance.

Bob Wilson

 

The SEL with the tech package seems like the sweet spot in the lineup for me. $25,785 is a pretty good deal.

 

I got my Prius on Friday.

I did consider the IONIQ and Kia Nero. They offer about the same for the same money where I live. There is subtle difference but not one that matters. Both Kia and Hyundai offered about the same in terms of safety in the top trim. I suspect Kia's lane departure warning system may be a bit more aggressive and effective than Toyota, so better from my perspective. Hyundai offers Android Auto which is great thing for me. I also like Hyundai's design most.

The thing is IONIQ and Nero are 1st generation products for Hyundai and Kia. Their DSG systems and their regenerative breaking systems are not yet mature. They got worse scores than Toyota from the tests I watched. This is what tiled things towards Toyota. Than you add the 98hp on Prius vs. 104bhp. 104 is just dumb - why add 6bhp and raise taxes and those 6hp - acceleration on the Prius is actually better.

Finally I wanted a product that is already fully baked and ready to use. I do not want to be early adopter with a car that I will use for 10 years. Actually all of these asian cars looked worse than VW Golf GTE on paper - slow, no plug-in capability, poor steering, poor suspension, ugly looks (Toyota is actually best of the bunch and still significantly worse than VW). I really liked the VW and Audi 3 but again 1st gen products that will show a lot of short comings over the long haul.

So for me if you want to go hybrid for the next 10 year Toyota was about the only sane choice. Everything else is just too expensive for me as I fear I will have to replace sooner.

In 10 years time I believe choice will be all electric or hydrogen. We will see.....

I may be wrong .....

PS I did consider the other Toyota models and it turns out the hybrids in the other Toyota's (C-HR and Auris) are just not as good as the Prius. It seems the Prius is purpose built from the ground up to be the best hybrid and it is just that.

PSS I also considered some petrol cars as opposed to diesel (Diesel was big until Euro 6 came about) and again Prius overall looks very well. It is a bit pricey - there were some similar size pure petrol cars that would ride better and cost a bit less but not much if I want the same safety package - Mazda 3 for example. Mazda 6 was a bit more expensive and seems much better ride but their reliability records has fallen off of a cliff.......