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Can i save my 07 pruis?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by AJ200, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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    Hi guys finally had some time to get custom PIDs on torque app

    I did logged data while the car was stationary as Brad advised. Also did some logging while i was driving around as stockdaddy advised.

    Now... to use the data attached .
    Do i,
    subtract: "[PRIUS]HV Battery Block Highest Volt(Volt)]" and [PRIUS]HV Battery Block Lowest Volt(Volt)]...and everytime there is diff greater than 1.2V look at which modules caused it??

    i'm unsure how to analyse the data.

    Or should look at the block(s) that has the lowest V the most ( so do a count of "[PRIUS]HV Battery Block Highest Volt(Volt)]" ) ?

    I will do more playing with the data to see if can get anywhere..

    On another note:

    -The battery takes about a minute to fully charge and about as quick to discharge. Does that mean a lot of modules are failing?
    -When the battery is fully charged it "shuts off" so the car is basically running on the petrol engine and it's really slow (as expected!)

    As al
     

    Attached Files:

  2. stockdaddy

    stockdaddy Member

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    When the battery is failing you'll notice strange behavior in the display such as showing 3bars, then 1 bar, then sudden jump to full green & back down 1.

    If you reset the codes the car should drive normally till the HV error code triggers again which might be as little as couple minutes. The error code should show which block is triggering the failure. Looking at the data, cell block 1 looks low compared to the other blocks.
     
  3. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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    The torque app only gives me the P0A80 error. Not the actual number of the bad block.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

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    The problem area, likely a bad module, can be identified as having a lower voltage or higher impedance than the rest. The car measures blocks of 2 modules. The problem could also be corroded bus bars or corroded and broken sense wires.

    The custom PIDs have a delta V PID that calculates high - low for you. You should reset the code and see if you can get some higher current out of the battery. You need some current flow to see the problem. You can do a reverse stall test. While in reverse hold the brake down firmly and start adding some gas pedal this draws substantial battery current. This is a torture test of the battery so don't get carried away. Also, don't let your foot off the brake and crash your car.

    Torque tip: Rather than add a bunch of guages to the screen you can see live data from the add guage screen. Go to the point of assigning a value to a guage and the just scroll up and down the list to see voltages and impedances.
     
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  5. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Wow, that data is hard to interpret. Run another test. 30 straight seconds charging in drive. 30 seconds discharging in reverse. Record ONLY the 14 block voltages and [PRIUS]HV Battery Current(Amp). The response time is quicker with less items recorded.

    I cleaned up your spreadsheet in a Google doc but can't post it here.

    On charge the block eight voltage climbs higher than the rest. On discharge blocks one and two seem to be dropping out.

    Brad
     
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  6. stockdaddy

    stockdaddy Member

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    When the HV Battery Current(Amp) is at the highest, i see 1&2 blocks dropping the most with #1 being worst.

    So like goldfinger said, it measures 2 modules within that block.

    Cleaned up 1 decimal version uploaded.
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Yep, I saw that also. But on charge block eight stands out as the highest. Totally shot modules or blocks will be both the highest on charge and the lowest on discharge. That's just not happening in this pack. I suspect that all the modules are at greatly different SOC. Block 8 is at a high state of charge. Blocks 1 and 2 are at a low state of charge. Running a steady state 30 seconds charging and 30 seconds discharging test would give a better picture of what is going on.

    The next step to do the least amount of work is to charge all the modules to the same voltage. Get a charger that can be set to stop at a specific voltage. This will bring all the modules to roughly the same SOC. Choose a voltage that allows at least 5 minutes of charging on each module. Some will take much more time.

    Brad
     
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  8. The Phoenix

    The Phoenix Member

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    I'm not much of a battery expert but I do really like using Rock Auto for aftermarket part. I'm not sure if the cost savings would equal out with the cost of shipping outside of the US. You seem mechanically inclined so it doesn't seem like it would be hard to replace just the catalytic converter

    RockAuto Mobile Catalog

    Good luck to you my 08 has 224,000 and I would love to get it as far as your has gone
     
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  9. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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    I didn't have timer handy so i just counted to 30 (slowly). I warmed the car up started logging when the engine shut off and stopped logging after 30.

    Started logging again when i started discharging making sure engine didn't kick in.

    Attached is the live data.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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    Thanks mate, i'm learning everyday. I love the prius if it was any other car i would've given up long ago.

    The people here are keeping me going:) (and my car!), really i wouldn't know where to start.

    I will look into Rock auto. We don't have that many Prius here.. so not many get wrecked.

    Wow 224000! is sure not bad going. here's to many more miles.

    AJ
     
  11. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Time 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Amps
    26:55.9 18.70 18.49 19.21 18.78 19.00 18.62 19.76 19.31 18.42 18.38 18.20 18.21 18.21 18.10 -24.3
    26:56.9 18.70 18.49 19.21 18.78 19.00 18.62 19.76 19.31 18.42 18.38 18.20 18.21 18.21 18.10 -24.3

    28:11.3 14.12 15.98 15.54 16.22 15.27 16.11 15.43 15.47 16.36 16.39 16.38 16.39 16.35 16.23 8.4
    28:12.3 14.16 15.96 15.39 16.17 15.36 16.07 15.42 15.45 16.28 16.37 16.34 16.30 16.35 16.18 8.4

    Delta V 4.58 2.51 3.67 2.56 3.63 2.51 4.33 3.84 2.06 1.99 1.82 1.82 1.86 1.87


    I cleaned up just a few lines from AJ's spreadsheet. Two are charging (negative amps) and two discharging (positive amps). Running steady state charges and discharges evens out the data. Delta V was calculated between the first and third lines. Big delta V is bad. Widespread delta V is bad. So the weak modules are hiding in block 1 with blocks 7,8,3, and 5 close behind.

    So AJ, how much work do you want to put in this? What charger do you have?

    Brad
     
    #51 strawbrad, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  12. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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    Thanks Brad.

    That's a fair few bad modules!

    I got some tools for the reconditioning.

    However i didn't get a charger yet. What you recommend? Reading some of threads on here people recommend...Supermate DC6?


    Its looking more and more like an impossible fix for me. I don't have much spare time with work and kids and i don't have an inventory to play with.

    I've been calling around at the wreckers they say they get some batteries in and they sell for around 700 NZD which is about 500 USD depending on their condition.

    AJ



    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  13. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    That's a cheap low power charger. The real problem is the slow, under 1 amp maximum discharge rate. It takes forever to discharge at that rate. One module could take up to six hours to discharge. Going through the whole battery just once would be over 150 hours.

    This is the charger I recommend. Turnigy Reaktor 2 x 300W 20A Balance Charger . It's two chargers in one case. It charges and discharges at up to a 20 amp rate on each channel. It needs to be powered from a 12 volt lead acid battery to discharge at 20 amps as it pumps the discharge energy back into the 12 volt battery. That would give you the fire power needed to get through a whole battery in a reasonable time.

    That's a decent deal IF you can keep your old battery. You could put the junkyard battery in and start driving. Then you would have time to cycle and test your old battery. The junkyard battery will fail at some point. With a spare battery for parts the wheels will fall off the car before you run out of battery modules.

    Brad
     
  14. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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    Had no luck sourcing junk yard battery so far...

    Can anybody direct me to thread where they used the Turnigy Reaktor to charge and discharge the battery.

    I would like to see what is involved before i buy the Reaktor i don't want to buy it and find it's way over my head.



     
  15. Moving Right Along

    Moving Right Along Senior Member

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    It was discussed in this thread: Replace Hybrid Battery -- Where to buy dead battery to repair? | Page 3 | PriusChat but the original poster there didn't seem to know much. I think user @strawbrad was the one who suggested it, so he would be the one to ask
     
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  16. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    It is possible to take all the modules from a Gen 3 battery and install them in your Gen 2. The modules are the same. The outer cases are not. That will give you a few more model years to look for.

    Here's a manual for the Reaktor.

    https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_148755754076215&key=8a24c98a696b4e5723db293f62190b87&libId=izdgoy0e010004o4000DAaswkq24r&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcgroups.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3F2115921-Turnigy-Reaktor-300W-20A-6S-Balance-Charger%2Fpage4&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fibuyrc.com%2Fmanual%2F75P-0620-Charger.pdf&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&title=Turnigy%20Reaktor%20300W%2020A%206S%20Balance%20Charger%20-%20Page%204%20-%20RC%20Groups&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fibuyrc.com%2Fmanual%2F75P-0620-Charger.pdf

    All the hobby chargers use basically the same format. Once you figure out the button pushing sequence it's easy. What's unique about the Reaktor is it's regenerative discharge. The Reaktor discharges the test battery back into the supply battery. This is why it can discharge at 20 Amps while most hobby charges are limited to 1 amp. You can use any 12 volt lead acid car battery to power the Reaktor. It does take some effort to manage the supply battery sink. You have to make sure the supply battery does not get over or under discharged.

    Brad
     
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  17. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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  18. AJ200

    AJ200 New Member

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    Thanks Brad, Didn't know that i could use GEN 3 modules too!

    I will read the manual and see if i can follow it easy enough.