My Prime's first transmission fluid change :D

My 2004 has the original transaxle fluid. Runs as smooth and quietly as it did when it was new.

 

If Toyota owned the prime in the driveway, I would be perfectly happy to comply with their directions. But my name is on the title and registration so I get to choose how to maintain my ride.

Now if anyone can provide a technical reason for delaying or even not changing the transmission oil, say an SAE paper, I would read it.

Bob Wilson

 

I can tell you this - I do wind energy research.

People in the wind industry are starting to change gear oil about every 5 years.

Wind turbines operate about 5,500 hours a year, which corresponds to something like 150,000 miles on a car.

That's something like 750,000 equivalent miles between gear oil changes.

Now, the oil is very high end, and it's kept extremely clean, so that's a difference compared to a car. But I doubt most cars will last long enough for other reasons (like the traction battery) before gear wear will matter.

 

If there were any sort of particle filter, I would be calmer but the screen is really for chunks, not the 1-2 mm sized particles found in my first Gen-3 change.

Bob Wilson

 

How many down-time hours involves in one gear oil change in these modern high-in-the-sky machines?
Should be quite an operation.

 

It's done in one shift by about three people or so. Depends on the machine.

 

How you ever consider difference between engine's that where 10-15 year's ago and how much power they make then and now.....how about working thermostat temperature.....additional emission parts that make more stress on combustion chambers.....increased carbon build-up.....especially on today's fuel direct injection ....etc
Using full synthetic .....will outlast factory recommendations.....but oil filter size on car engines will not have full duty till next oil change.....
Oil and fuel filtration are way behind ....
Ethanol mix fuel are another issue....but i will not talk now......
Or how many people really check what type of oil and filters are getting for price they pay.
Independent fast oil shop's are there to sell cheapest products they can get......

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

All to say, the Toyota engineers thought it was best then with the recommended maintenance schedule as it is now with the current maintenance schedule. If their engineering isn't good enough, then why buy their product? I will follow their recommended maintenance schedule and if it ends up not being good enough results in the end, then I will stop buying their products period. I only need to get burnt once and I will go else where. If they want to get rid of customers, that is what will happen. I understand technology has changed and so has the engineering with it. Why have recommended schedules if they weren't meant to follow? I am thinking it is there to not to be over thought but also not over looked.

#1 in Easley,SC

 

I totally agree with that.

 

Never let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good enough.' Many engineering decisions are trade-offs that then get passed to management who have a different set of priorities. We can complain about these 'after the fact' decisions but we do like signed paychecks.

If someone prefers to have exceptionally clean lubricants, why should anyone else complain? It isn't your car so run yours the way you want and I'll run mine the way I want. There is no ding on Toyota engineering who have already done the heavy lifting.

Bob Wilson

 

A good example of engineering being overridden is the space shuttle Challenger issue with the O rings. Engineering said it was not safe but they were overruled.

 

I understand what you are saying the you do your car the way you want and I will do mine the way I want. I would like to understand where does someone draw the line with everything in a maintenance schedule? By what certain people are saying, more frequently than recommended is better. Why not change oil every week? It is bound to get contaminates in it. Why let it go further than that? Or take the spark plugs and change them every month or take them out to brush them clean. They will definitely fire better if they are clean completely. Or replace hoses every year, because rubber doesn't last forever and no one wants to be stranded with a hose leaking. Or take the fuel filter out at every tank full of gas to make sure the previous tank of gas wasn't contaminated and they won't get that same contaminated gas again and prevent the fuel filter from getting clogged. Or if they have gas in the tank for a long time, drain the gas instead of burning it. Why would someone want to contaminate their fuel filter and engine? Or adjust their tire pressure every trip they make? Their tire pressure is bound to change in the trip that they made. Why would someone want to waste more energy than was necessary or wear the tires unevenly to more tire replacements? Somehow there can be excessive maintenance. There can always be doubt in not doing something enough. At what point does someone feel confident enough to say that is great enough to be perfect. Doing what is recommended and getting over 350,000 miles on a car? Just curious on where someone draws the line if they are striving for the perfect maintenance.

#1 in Easley,SC

 

I'm reading this:

'What is your criteria?'

• Transmission oil - I will follow a log, schedule of service miles: 2k, 5k, 10k, 20k, 50k . . . at least for the first three changes. Each change includes getting a clean sample and having it analyzed by R&G Labs in Tampa Florida. My first transmission oil changes were in 2005 with a 2003 Prius at 50k. It was part of my cold weather, roll-down testing. I was able to detect a measurable improvement by accelerating the oil transmission change. This was also seen to a lessor extent with our Gen-3 when the first oil change revealed the root cause as manufacturing debris, early wear material, and sealant beads. Note this has not been done with our BMW i3-REx but I have a service inspection due Feb 20.
  
• Engine oil - I change in the spring and the fall. The spring change removes the condensed water from the oil. The fall change which also includes the engine air filter, removes the particulate matter, primarily dust and pollen.
• Tires - all tires stay on the wheels as mounted. At the oil changes, each tire is inspected for abnormal wear patterns, every thread. By keeping the tires on the same wheels, we can identify early wear patterns that require a wheel alignment. Odometer and speedometer calibration is checked with new tires to a correction factor is known. This will be used to select the replacement tires so the speedometer and trip meters will report accurate data. The front tires will wear out first so replace them with calibration-corrected tires. Then a year or two later, the rear tires with calibration-corrected tires. Thereafter, the rear tires replace the front and new, calibration corrected tires go on the rear.
• Tire inflation - all tires are set to maximum sidewall pressure every 60 days or more frequently when temperatures drop for an extended period of time. My tire tread temperature measurements revealed that maximum sidewall minimizes the effects of wheel misalignment and reduces the tire temperature in operation several degrees.

My maintenance schedule and practices come from lab analysis of the transmission oil and tire metrics from over a decade of Gen-1 and Gen-3 practices. If someone can propose test that would show some other approach is better, I'm interested. Just I prefer to believe my experimental results.

Bob Wilson

 

Doing an early transaxle fluid change, say at the one year mark, then maybe every three or four years, is prudent, not "OCD".

Toyota's maintenance schedule has a lot of influences: the 6 month check of driver's floor mat, for instance.

 

I just like to know why Toyota wouldn't be prudent in their recommended schedules? It doesn't cost them anything, does it? You the owner would pay for the expenses. What would be their reasoning?

 

With the transaxle fluid change, I'm thinking it's because: chances are the transaxle will be fine, survive the car's lifetime. And the few failures will be well out of warranty. And low maintenance is a selling feature.

 

Yes, it does - lost future sales.
Planned obsolescence - Wikipedia

 

No, no, no: more sales. As in: car broke, buy another.

Seriously, if it's not the transaxle, something else is just as likely to catch up with you. But with the transaxle, for a trivial hour of your time and $40, c'mon.

 

Or perhaps I'm just cheap. If I tweak my car for optimum performance, it will save gas all the time.

Bob Wilson

 

I doubt $60 worth of transmission oil and testing will save you $60 in energy usage over the life of the car.