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Best Techniques to Drive the Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by inferno, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. ruby

    ruby Member

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    Interesting results. Thanks for posting. Looking forward to seeing more.
     
  2. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    I'm sorry all, I thought we would have a definitive answer by now...

    Results from today:

    • 40 degree weather
    • 121.8 mpg, 49.0
    • This technique did not exist in my PiP.
    • 67 % EV Usage
    • 45 MPH Average Speed
    • 1:05 elapsed time
    • No Miles Left EV

    What I did...

    Did not push EV above the halfway point. I have a really long ~5 mile uphill grade. But I don't have to throttle too much as it's a slow speed limit and windy. I'm able to make it to the top of the hill and then there I hit charge mode. I noticed that running it in Charge Mode downhill first caused the engine to warm up and the mileage is actually reflected more-or-less correctly (ie, downhill yielded me 50 MPG as the engine warmed up AND charged the battery). At the end of the downhill it finally went 100+ MPG.

    Going downhill in chargemode still yields 100+ MPG, and I think the car is being charged by rolling and engine. I did this 4 times in downhill grades that were > 1 mile. I pushed into HV mode if my throttle required more than half way power. Note that EV auto still allows you to go beyond that.

    Other thoughts:
    • Some people say, charging the car through charge mode is inefficient, because it's inefficient to convert gas to electric. But take into mind that's what the Hybrids do. It's able to balance it out, so perhaps rolling downhill and charging is not a bad idea.
    • Note my EV usage drop, most likely because EV was off most of the time especially down hills.
    • Note my speed increased.
    • Note outside temperature increased by 4 degrees. Not sure if this matters but it could be that the heat pump didn't need to run as much.

    Any other thoughts?

    So it seems on a downhill grade you could run in charge mode to charge your battery faster. You'll achieve perhaps 199 MPG vs 999 if the engine is off. But overall if you use EV efficiently it may benefit you in the end.

    Next few tests will involve repeating the results, paying attention to the weather and seeing if they match and are consistent.

    What's great is after all these tests I'm still over half a tank full.

    Need to definitely pay attention to the temperature though! And I think in the summer the engine warmup may not matter as much!?

    It's crazy to get 4-10% variance here depending on technique. My gas consumption at this rate could last me an extra 2 days. This is exciting. Interesting car!
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you are rolling downhill and not in charge mode, the engine will be off, so you'd have to find a way to measure how much gas was burned in charge mode, to charge the battery to x, and using those ev miles to propel the car, vs just using the engine to propel the car those miles.
     
  4. White 17

    White 17 Junior Member

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    If we go downhill in EV mode the battery will be charged also. Does the battery charge more in Charge mode than in EV mode going downhill? I really don't know so I am asking.

    Also does the battery accept more charge in EV mode than HV mode assuming a long enough downhill run? I have been trying to figure that one out myself; no answer yet.

    And more, it seems that the energy seems to remain available in the battery after charging in the EV mode whereas in HV mode it seems to get used right away before going to the ICE.
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    @inferno thanks for your tests!

    Well I mean a regular Prius can see a 10-20% difference in mpg based on terrain and driving style (as well as temperature). 4-10% isn't bad although in absolute terms, your 4-10% is probably larger than the 10-20% for a Prius since we're not on triple digit mpg.
     
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  6. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    So I think downhill in ev mode and hv mode is similar. You won't lose charge. Initially when the motor needs to warm up it seems to propulse the car less and rely on ev motors as well. But only if you gas it.

    Charging regen in hv or ev mode is the same. One may require engine warmup though and use the gas. But then it'll be warmed up at the bottom of the hill and you can go! So if you need to be in hv mode at the bottom pressing it at the top of the hill is probably the best for saving ev range and gaining it.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    in the pip, if you are in ev mode, that regen will be saved for future ev mode. in hv mode, that regen will be used automatically, and cannot be preserved.

    the question 'will going downhill in charge mode produce more regen than ev or hv modes probably depends on the hill, and the starting battery capacity.
     
  8. White 17

    White 17 Junior Member

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    I seem to notice the EV vs HV storage of the charge as well.

    I will see if I can duplicate downhill runs in EV and HV charge modes and find if there is a difference.

    Thanks for the responses.
     
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  9. Pizza Driver

    Pizza Driver Active Member

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    This is not the case in the Prime, depending, of course, on how you drive. For my very first trip getting the car from Maryland where I bought it to home in Ohio, driving in HV mode the whole way, I went from 4 miles range when leaving the dealership to 9 miles range when I reached home. The regen from coasting down steep grades (even while using cruise control) was not used up when the engine started up again.
     
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  10. thatoneraccoon

    thatoneraccoon Active Member

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    I worry about that too :D
    I felt bad for my Prime the other day on the freeway at 78mph and ran out of electric and the ICE came on not even warmed up. gah! makes me cringe now. lol However I think I may have noticed something during that. It may appear that it does what my volt does, power up the ICE and it does a bit to warm up before it puts a load on it, or thats how it felt :)
     
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    My PiP also uses the battery to help the ICE as it warms up. I can see it on the MPG indicator. When I'm doing 50 mph and go from EV to HV I get like 60-70 MPG for a while and after a minute or so, I feel a transition and see that I'm suddenly getting about 35-40 MPG even though there's still plenty of battery left. Apparently it gets a considerable assist from the battery to warm the ICE more gently.
     
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  12. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    More figures here, FYI, the strategy here was to get to the top of the hill, reset the Odometer. Go down the hill in two different methods. Drive in HV and use up the EV range to when I started.

    Here are my results (FYI the downhill is a steep grade for 1 mile).

    Charge Mode Downhill Method
    • 5.2 miles driven
    • 52.8 mpg
    • Got about 2 miles EV regen.
    • Note that I went further trying to use up the EV range and actually switched to EV mode when the rolling hills started. I didn't want to taint my results, but I obviously did.

    HV Mode Downhill Method
    • 3.4 miles driven
    • 63.4 mpg
    • So HV mode used up about 1 mile EV gained, shorter distance got 63.4 mpg.

    Average temperature both times: 27 degrees F.

    I notice when I have the front heaters on that activate the engine the car actually does pretty well. I wish EV Auto was more conservative with the EV usage, it seems to have a high tolerance unless you absolutely floor it...But with front heaters and going back home with 50 miles to drive I averaged 88 MPG. Engine on and off to warm up the car. And it was nice because I didn't have to switch modes back and forth and still had EV at the end of my trip. My % EV dropped from 75 to 50 but it was still great in cold weather.
     
  13. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    @inferno, I assume your 49 miles test trips started with full charge? If this is the case, you should IMO mention alongside mpg, the kWh used from wall for both cars i.e. ~6.3 kWh Prime and ~3.1 kWh PiP (doing some justice to PiP).
     
  14. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    How would I find that out? Something external right? And from the wall?
     
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    So.... it's better to use HV mode in the downhill than CHG mode?
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    better in what way?
     
  17. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    In my tests, yes; better as in better fuel economy. However, this is not the end of it yet. It's important to note that it took longer to use all the EV range generated by CHARGE Mode, and I did force it into EV to use up the range whereas going down in HV mode I used up the 1 mile generated easily. A better test would be to not charge the car in the morning. Run the test for the same amount of miles and see what happens. I should have enough gas to do that ;D
     
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  18. Dhuntj

    Dhuntj New Member

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    my sentiments exactly
     
  19. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    You don't have to find it, the amount of electrical energy invested in one full charge is irrelevant to the trip you are taking. For the PiP it was established to be ~3.1 kWh payable, For the Prime it is ~6.3 kWh payable (by EPA, confirmed by @bwilson4web ).

    All I am saying is that if you mentioned the gallons invested in your test drives, you should mention the kWh invested as well.
     
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  20. Optimus PRIME

    Optimus PRIME Active Member

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    RMay,

    Just want to say that I am impressed that you don't drive a Prius (or just a Prius Prime) but a Volt and you are still active in this forum and not being a troll. Thanks.