Featured if you are looking at a new plugin or EV which is more important, range or MPGe?

Range would be more important than efficiency if I was to purchase an electric car. And that range would have to be rated at 260 miles or more to handle the furthest I'd typically go in a day, taking winter range reduction into account.

 

range is important personally, but mpge is important environmentally. it's not black and white. there is no best, because one car has to fit many buyers with different habits and commutes.

even though phev's are conceived as improved mpg vehicles, most buyers want to know how much of their driving can be covered in ev, with the engine as a back up for long trips. so, they really see them as extended range ev's.

 

Range MPG with engine on and all electric range...

 

A Honda Insight converted to lithium does 160 Wthr/mile at 60mph

An EV1 lithium better than that

Electric efficiency is very important because of regional high energy costs just as gas mpg is

 

In all fairness, I have on the driveway:

• 2014 BMW i3-REx - 117 MPGe, 72 EV range, 39 MPG, total 150 miles
• 2017 Prius Prius Plus - 133 MPGe, 25 EV range, 54 MPG, total 640 miles

No version of the Ioniq is for sale in the USA as I type this note. There are rumors we'll see them in April. So the first requirement, 'must be for sale', well the Ioniq isn't even in the game.

Not addressed is my hard requirement, "Dynamic Cruise Control" and "Accident Avoidance." The Chevy Volt I saw a week or so ago failed to meet this requirement. It may be an option but it is non-negotiable. Does your car have it?

Notice that each of my plug-ins has both a gas and EV capability. Sad to say, no such Ioniq is listed on:

• www.fueleconomy.gov

That site lists only the Ioniq, Ioniq Blue, and Ioniq EV. None of these three are both EV and gas capable.

So the simple answer is:

1. Primary requirement, dynamic cruise control and accident avoidance, not in the article.
2. As of this post, none of the Ioniq are on dealer lots for sale.
3. As of the EPA web site, there is no Ioniq, plug-in hybrid.

Now the Prius Prime was not for sale when I bought the BMW i3-REx. We have already gone on a 700 mile, each way, weekend trip to and from Oklahoma with the BMW i3-REx. The Prius Prime was bought and driven 1200 miles home after the BMW i3-REx was in the shop for a broken motor mount. Each car backs up the other and each is equally capable of meeting our requirements. But they are not perfect:

• BMW i3-REx - gas range 78 miles on a 2 gallon tank, is too short. I have a plan to bring it up to 4-5 gallons.
• Prius Prime - does not have a 2" receiver. I have a plan to get one.

Bob Wilson

 

Range is the primary thing for me until a certain range (about 150 miles).
For all the cars that reach that range, efficiency is then very important.

I feel fortunate that we will see more and more models reaching that 150 mile mark over the next year or so.

 

people want a bev, but they have range anxiety, so they buy a phev. now mpge should be a primary concern, but even tesla isn't concerned. when we can all drive bev's, that's what we'll do. no one wants an engine, in and of itself, except the other 97% of drivers.

 

MPGe is nice, but not if it won't get me where I need to go. Once in a while I drive 1,000 miles in under 24 hours. I don't care if it has 1,000,000 MPGe, if I can't drive all day long with just quick stops for fuel, food, and energy, I don't have much use for it.

 

i rest my case.

 

As you allude to range and efficiency are very closely aligned. Improve efficiency and range improves as well.
A 2000 Honda Insight with a 30kwhr battery would have roughly a 190 mile EPA range (there are only 3 insight bev conversion s I know of)

Many complain that a 30kwhr leaf only goes 100 miles.
Would these folks prefer an EV1 or Honda Insight that go roughly twice as far or more with the same battery at roughly the same cost?

If different body design decisions where made in 2011 we could have always had a 200 mile BEV option using the same "small" batteries we had then.

The EV1 at least was made into an 88mpg hybrid, assumably it could have been made into a phev with the 10 year newer technology present in 2011.

But would anyone besides me buy a 80+mpg range extended EV with a 16kwhr battery and a 100 mile + highway range?

 

Well, a couple 100,000 people have bought 80 mile range BEVs, so yes, I suspect lots of people would buy the vehicle you propose.
While efficiency and range are aligned, they also oppose each other.
Right now, and in 2011 to a greater extent, more batteries meant more weight which hurts efficiency.

The longest range EVs were typically the less efficient ones, because of that weight.

It is true batteries improve their energy density and cost, and I expect at some point for range and efficiency to be more closely aligned.

 

Actually weight has much less of an affect on range than it once did.

The type of drivetrains we employ combined with lrr tires have a small fraction of the rolling resistance of older cars even as our cars have steadily weighed more.
This means where a 2000lb 1980's car may have had 30% of its energy go to RR a modern 3000lb + car may only have 20% lost to RR, significant yes but add 500lbs and it's almost irrelevant on energy consumption.

Where weight hurts is in city situations because regen is only 40-70% efficient. Other than that weight loss is really best for improving 0-60 and not much else.
( that said I would love to be able to buy a sub 1000lb composite car, fiber and composite steel is taking a long time to market though)

In so far as a Tesla being less efficient (what I assume you are referring to when you say heavy long range BEV) it has very little to do with weight.
Tesla is inefficient because of the type of AC induction motor used, Tesla chose a motor that can put out nearly unlimited power (up to thermal saturation) but because its motors are magnet free they have parasitic losses to run field current.
If they used the same motors as every other manufacturer they would gain 20%+ better ev efficiency.
Tesla also has a much more energy intensive battery management system but over the road this is only maybe 5% loss in normal temperatures.

On that...
I have often wondered why Tesla doesn't at least offer a traditional permanent magnet motor set on its 4wd variants. They could then have the best of both worlds magnetic motors up front for efficient cruising and induction motors on the rear for blistering acceleration.

Tesla s cars should manage about 99mpge if they would drop induction.

Ah well, not their market

 

It isn't the rolling resistance, it is, as you indicated the city driving. Getting more weight moving takes more energy.
Starting from a stop kills the efficiency. Tesla vehicles are actually more efficient at highway speeds than city driving.

Tesla doesn't use permanent parents because they avoid the rare earth materials required in DC motors.
Their MPGe is above 100mpge, but the most efficient EVs are up around 120.

Update-----
Here is a blog on the differences: Induction Versus DC Brushless Motors | Tesla

End result, both AC and DC have pros and cons. There really isn't a clear choice.

 

I could made do with an EV with a 200 mile range but it would have to be a second car. 90% of my trips barn back to barn are 20-30 miles, With the occasional need to add a few stops to the 100 mile trips and allowing for cold weather ...

Only 1% of my trips are beyond 200 and I could rent for those

 

Improving efficiency across all car types is important, but EV range is important for getting the public to switch to plug ins. More important in regards to a BEV, but also important for PHEV buyers looking to reduce total gasoline used. Too little, and PHEV buyers will skip over the car because of the compromises for the design.

It's called the Volt.

As to a converted Insight or modern EV1, they wouldn't sell as well as the Leaf due to there being just two seats, and the all aluminum bodies would keep the price up.

The first step is getting all those multicar households to realize that a BEV could work for one of their cars. Improvements to range and efficiency will increase the number that can, and make PHEVs more attractive, but the first step is the hardest.

The other big step is getting people to car about efficiency past the price at the pump.

 

Efficiency beyond price at the pump regarding electric vehicles can only go as far as price at the plug. If efficiency is sold as helping the planet or reducing carbon emissions or similar, you're only attracting a small percent of people who care enough about such things to change their personal behavior and are willing to listen to the long complicated explanation of how those things can be related. But saving money is something everyone can instantly understand and support.

 

agreed. but if those people aren't saving money over gas, they aren't going to switch.

 

Exactly

 

This is not correct.
It is true with most hybrids.
EVs though get people that want to save money on the fuel as well as people that want more space, more convenience (for homeowners with a garage), more performance or a better quality drive.

This is why EV sales continue to grow even though gas prices are very low.