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Prius Prime Plus in my hands

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by bwilson4web, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    Something like this is already on Mitsubishi Hybrid SUV...in Europe.....what will be here in US once it shows finally...we are going to

    And i have rented this Car in Europe last year and i was powering my House in Europe ....without any hiccups
     
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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    There isn't a separate button. You hold down the EV/HV button for a few seconds and CHG should come up in the 4.2" MID.
     
  3. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Are you saying that since the extra torque request is internal by the system the control handles it so the car will not slow down?
     
  4. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Exactly.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    That sure beats standing on brake and flooring the accelerator.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  6. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    I expect the CHG routine to be every bit as useful as the POWER button.
     
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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Getting the car ready Friday morning, I plugged in an 80W, 12V-to-120VAC inverter to power a Macintosh with GPS mouse and USB ports to power the iPhone 5s. I started the car to run the front and rear defrosters and heard a periodic whooshing sound to my right: ~10 second period for about 3 seconds. It sound like it was coming from the nearby rail yard. With everything working, I drove off and the sound continued.

    My first thought was the passenger side, outside mirror motor was acting up but adjusting the mirror had no effect. Door or window mechanism, still no luck. So I pulled into a parking lot, left the car in "P" and went to the passenger side ... nothing. Then opening the door, there was that whoosh again . . . it was a small fan on the 80W inverter and realized I had the perfect sound-effect for "Dark Helmet":
    [​IMG]
    It sounds a little like someone with a bronchial condition being told to "take a deep breath." Regardless, a spare t-shirt arranged around the fan outlet reduced the whoosh so it was only noticeable at speeds under ~40-50 mph. At highway speeds, I had to listen carefully to hear it and it soon became 'background noise.'

    My 'to do' list:
    • Cruise control minimum speed value and does it 'kick out' if the car dips below it
    • mph vs MPG in HV mode: 25 mph up to 75 mph in 10 mph increments on a standard day
    • Augmented with GPS, roll-down tests to calculate the three coefficients
    • Review the trip GPS files (there were significant data gaps)
    • Design a front curb 'feeler' to avoid crushing when parking front-in
    • Mount the "KISS MY AMPS" frames front and rear
    • Order "C55MPG" vanity plate and water-proof plastic bag to hold the cardboard temp tag
    • Run out of gas to measure the true tank capacity and identify any error lights and codes
    • Buy life-time alignment at local Firestone dealer and see what it arrived with at Huntsville
    • Schedule early oil and transmission oil change with sample bottles for analysis
    • Fully inflate the tires
    • Payoff car loan
    Bob Wilson

    ps. Three flight legs came in at a total of ~33 gallons/passenger for ~1,200 miles, or ~36 MPG per passenger. Leaving the house at 5 AM and arriving at Providence RI at 2 PM or ~133 mph. The taxi and flight cost $140.

    My return drive in the Prius Prime: 55 MPG, ~57 mph (block speed), and ~$40 once I refuel. I have some 'out of gas' tests to run.
     
    #47 bwilson4web, Jan 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    For front curb issue did you see my tag about somebody with a raising kit for Gen 4? It is in the Prius-x article.
     
  9. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Three? CdA and rolling friction. What's the third?
     
  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    What we have here is a Prius wearing a Dazer conversion by Car-Style, which as you can see, adds a 50mm suspension lift, plastic over-fenders, new bigger wheels with off-road tires, new front and rear bumpers with guards and a rugged roof rack.
    From The Crossover Toyota Prius-X You Never Knew You Wanted

    I wonder if they would work with Bob to get one for the Prime?
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There are three coefficients normally found in the EPA 'Test Car Data'
    1. Target Coef A - constant drag force independent of velocity ... if it moves, it is there
    2. Target Coef B - drag force proportional to velocity
    3. Target Coef C - drag force proportional to velocity squared
    Now I wish I'd never seen it. The only thing missing is the 'smoker' kit to return the flavor for that 'rolling coal' jerk running around Huntsville. Only I would mix in a little 'skunk oil' (see hunting.) Hummm, now that might work on tailgaters, especially the ones that like to flash their headlights.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #51 bwilson4web, Jan 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    That is too weird.

    I see all three coefficients in the EPA certification spreadsheet, but their own model doesn't include the linear term:

    https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/models/ngm/420d04002.pdf

    The power demand (in Watts) is the brake power or, VSP*m:
    Pb = VSP*m = mv[a(1+g) + g*grade + gCR] + 0.5ρCDArv3 (1)
    where:
    v: is vehicle speed (assuming no headwind) in m/s (or mps)
    a: is vehicle acceleration in m/s2
    g: is mass factor accounting for the rotational masses (~0.1)
    g: is acceleration due to gravity (9.8 m/s2)
    grade: is road grade
    CR: is rolling resistance (~0.009)
    ρ: is air density (~1.2 kg/m3)
    CD: is aerodynamic drag coefficient (~0.30)
    Ar: is the frontal area in meters2 (~2.4 m2)
    m: is vehicle mass in metric tonnes.


    Ignoring the acceleration and grade terms, you just have rolling friction and aerodynamic drag.

    I'm struggling to find a drag term that's linear with velocity. Bearing friction because of lubrication?
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I share your concern especially because I've not found a ".gov" regulation that specifies how to do a roll-down test. So I'm thinking someone decided a second order, polynomial with three coefficients would do a better job of curve fitting the data. But I've also noticed some ... anomalies in the coefficients reported by the vendors for different models.

    If you have three coefficients, one can tweak them to give similar curves but go divergent beyond the roll-down test speed range. Also, there needs to be a statistically valid sample set and dealing with divergent data points. My thinking is:
    • Bi-directional roll down starting at maximum highway speed, 75 mph, down to 25-15 mph
      • average the data points for each test
      • calculate the coefficients
    • Do 5 sets and toss out the slowest and fastest of the bi-directional runs.
    • Average the remaining three sets.
    This protocol will give me confidence that I have usable coefficients for Prime performance curves.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    You won't find a government document saying how to run the coastdown test - the laws simply reference these SAE standards:

    (4) SAE J2263, Road Load Measurement Using Onboard Anemometry and Coastdown Techniques, revised December 2008, IBR approved for §§ 1066.301(b), 1066.305, and 1066.310(b).

    (5) SAE J2264, Chassis Dynamometer Simulation of Road Load Using Coastdown Techniques, revised January 2014, IBR approved for § 1066.315.
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Found it!

    Source: Annual Certification Test Data for Vehicles and Engines | Compliance and Fuel Economy Data for Vehicles and Engines | US EPA

    EPA.gov Prius 17 Prime 17
    1 Set Coef A (lbf) 18.843 8.965
    2 Set Coef B (lbf/mph) 0.17373 0.12237
    3 Set Coef C (lbf/mph**2) 0.015138 0.014282

    Whoot! Whoot!

    [​IMG]
    Bob Wilson
     
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  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Bob, sorry, if I had known you were searching for that, I would have given it to you since I already had it.

    I was unable to find a definition of "set coefficients" versus "target coefficients". Do you know?
     
  17. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Hey, Bob.

    Try these coefficients:

    17 Prius, A=22.08, B=0, C=0.016766
    17 Prime, A=11.24504, B=0, C=0.015428
     
  18. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Check to see if GPS/Tire calibration is a Plus model feature. Saw something about this in the OM or Nav. guide. Might be more accurate than the odom.
     
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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My understanding is "set coefficients" is from the roll-down and "target" is for the dyno testing after factoring in the inertial load of the car.

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    Dumb question from a spectator: how do you control for road variation ?