Oil Change Observation

And that's always a head-scratcher for me. Up here bottled liters of Toyota 0W20 are currently $5.91 (Can) through my Toyota parts department, and bulk is $4.50 per liter.

And the third gen oil change interval stayed at 6 months or 8000 kilometer (~5000 miles). Fourth gen I believe now matches US interval.

All said, it's only and "edict" from Toyota. There's nothing stopping you doubling up on the US guideline.

That's Honda's guidance, to replace the filter at every second oil change. A sensible compromise methinks.

Of course, none of the Honda dealerships will follow it though, call you crazy if you ask them to follow it. Put statements on the invoice that start "At customer's request..." and "Oil will look dirty due to...".

 

With the exception of an oil burning 1992 Tercel I've been changing oil every 7500 miles since I got a license. At first, it was just due to convenience because I was driving 300+ miles a month as a courier. Crawling underneath the car every month was too often already and the owners manual on my 1992 Accord, 1995 Integra, 1998 Corolla all recommended 7500 OCI. I didn't notice any ill effects. And as a stupid man in his late teens, early 20's, I explored triple digit speeds quite often. The Corolla obviously obvious needed gravity to help out.

And then I moved onto a 2003 Civic and a 2006 Civic. The latter of which had the Maintenance Minder system which reminded me at roughly 10k miles as the 2003 Honda Civic did on dino 5w20. By this time, I was no longer a directionless Gen X'er piling on the miles. I had a 9to5 rush hour traffic commute. Again, I didn't notice any difference at the beginning or towards the end of the OCI. I dutifully followed the owners manual. The 2006 Civic was at 177k mile when it was sold as Mendel Leisk cleverly put "a perfect service record."

And so doing 10k mile OCI on my next and current car, 2012 Prius on expensive synthetic 0w20 is a non issue for me. Anyone who thinks Toyota is purposely recommending 10k OCI as planned obsolescence should take a look at Honda's 10k OCI rec on the 2001 Civic on dino. Last I checked Toyota and Honda are two of the most dependable vehicles brands on any list.

I imagine I'll be having this conversation in 10-20 years about battery degradation charging past 80% SoC and leaving it like that even though Toyota states 100% is perfectly safe.

 

Hondas now have "Maintenance Minder". It's an interesting system, as far as I know more than a dumb mile counter. Maybe considering (besides distance): mean coolant temperature, number of starts, not really sure what all. There's no published schedule anymore, with an oil change interval.

Our son has our previous 06 Civic Hybrid, and he tends to wait till the Maintenance Minder is right down to 0% remaining. They are putting the miles on pretty fast too. Anyway, see from my log it was more or less precisely 10,000 km's between oil changes last time, that's something like 6250 miles?

====
Saturday, May 14, 2016
km: 206246
(service B1)
* Replaced engine oil and filter
====
Saturday, December 17, 2016
km: 216,126
(Service A12)
* Replaced engine oil

 

Same for me. Remember that the engine doesn't even turn over 10 to 20% of the time, (although it is at operating temp all of the time). I just checked my oil level after 6,000 miles and it is barely below the top line and visually clear. I have 73,000 miles on my 2010.

So, I am skeptical of need to change sooner than 10,000. People believe what makes them most comfortable. If you feel better changing at 5,000 miles, go for it. I am comfortable with my belief because it justifies my laziness. .

 

Well that's debatable too: especially due to the frequent shutdown, engine under easy conditions will stabilize around 70~80C, not the fully warmed 90C. This is what I saw, with protracted monitoring with ScanGauge. Especially in winter. The only time I'd see it climb to and stay at 90C is on sustained hill climbs, say going up a ski mountain.

 

On my 2003 Civic, the wrench light was strictly a mileage counter at 10k miles. On my 2006 Maintenance Minder, 0% always happened within a few hundred miles of 10k miles. My sister's 2016 CRV was in the 5000 mile range for its first oil change although she had it nearly a year so time probable elapsed before miles. I enjoyed those days of cheap 5w20 oil.

I wish Toyota had a similar system instead of just a mileage counter. Maybe that would alleviate somewhat the fear of 10k OCI.

 

Just saw a posting elsewhere on the discussions the automakers and oil companies are now having on the next standard spec for oils for the next generation of engines having to meet increasingly higher MPG averages.

You want to know if your oil is good at 5k or 10k? Send a sample into the UOA (Used Oil Analysis) labs. It is viscosity and additives breakdown that is your enemy. And a mix of your oil, your driving habits and your location that will affect those.

 

Toyota 0W20 through my dealership parts department is $5.91 per bottled liter, $4.50 for bulk (Canadian $'s). I think it's markedly higher in the States though, for US quarts in US $'s. Kinda the inverse of the usual situation: product cost in Canada vs States.

 

My wife's 2007 Honda Accord Maintenance Minder goes to 0% at roughly 7500 mile intervals. It took me a while to extend my 5k mile OCI to 7.5k but I do now with Mobile1 Extended Mile oil that lists that it is good for 15k miles and Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter that lists protection up to 15k miles.

I like the Honda Maintenance Minder that tells you when certain maintenance is required rather than a mileage/time table. Like Mendel, I am not sure what all Honda is measuring with this system but it is obvious that it is more than just mileage.

 

My mother's Buick Enclave has a similar system. I really like it. The system in the Buick monitors how many starts and stops, average speed, number of cold starts, hard acceleration. It's very smart and I wish Toyota's had the same system. The Enclave gets near 0% oil life around 7000 or 8000 miles with my moms driving (full synthetic oil)

 

With the Maintenance Minder, from 15% on downward, the car starts to turn up the heat: preempting the usual display with a reminder that must be dismissed, and showing a permanent icon about pending maintenance. I always took that as my cue: did the maintenance at 15%, close enough.

It seems like the MM keeps the dealerships slightly more honest, too: it's codes are saying specifically what needs doing. You can still do extras, but you have a solid defence if the dealerships tries to stampeded you into unneeded services.

 

Personal observations really don't matter much. As others have said get the OCI analysis. I'm at 80k mostly hwy miles as I do about 30k a year and my analysis has been very positive where they suggested I could go longer based on the analysis of the oil.

Also as others have said, the engine is not working 100% of the time which is even more reason why 10k OCs make sense.

 

Do you know what your oil level was @ 7k-10k. Did you top off? I know when I change the oil, it comes out a hell of a lot faster than it goes in with the engine being cold. It has to break down. I have not done a 10k oci in a while. I do flip flop between 5-7.5oci depending on my schedule.

 

I haven’t topped off yet in the past 50k Miles (5 changes). I wouldn’t go below 10k mile changes. My report above showed really good wear and plenty of life in the oil, so you could likely go longer than 10k if using at least M1 0W-20.

 

But a restart is hard on the wear parts with additional gas squirts being added to the fuel mix. Is there a screen which will show what percentage of the time the car is running in battery mode versus ICE? My impression is less than 10% on my mix of city 25/50/35 MPH driving up and down rolling hills and 50% 65/70 highway miles both always with HVAC on to AUTO. Since my oil changes are free, I do them at 1k and 5k thereafter.

 

It would be interesting to have a hour meter on these cars and see how many hours they have on them at typical
5,000 and 10,000 mile intervals. Another hour meter for actual READY time.

 

I did that and used vibration hrs meter from ebay. In my city/sub commuting with P&G driving, ICE was on exactly 50% and average speed 25mph. That amounts to 200 hrs of ICE in 10,000 miles. That put me at easy for doing 10,000 miles OCI. On hwy, ICE is on near 100%, but hwy driving is easier on ICE and oils. I find 0W20 oils looking great and clean at the end of 10,000 miles and no difference in ICE sound, but i top oil if lower than full. Maybe the OP has lower oil level toward end of OCI?

 

Thanks, for the answer.

I know the engine can't run much, the Prius loves warmer temperatures. I just clocked my best mpg returning home from a neighboring town this evening posting 94 mpg. It was a 8 - 10 mile drive.

 

Getting back to the noise issue, and I've beat this subject to death, my Prius has a very loud engine growl (moan?) when accelerating. I thought that was normal--doesn't bother me so much. It lets me know this car has a "real" engine in it.

It's no quieter right after an oil change, regardless of which brand of 0W-20 I use. Dealer uses Pennzoil Platinum. ICE is loud. One time I had them pour in Mobil 1. ICE is loud. Not a problem.

I go back & forth on the frequency of oil changes. But it definitely gets changed once or twice a year.