Kwh, charge time, EV range

Thanks for the info.

You bring up another question I have: does the engine start from a normal 12 volt starter or does it use the electric motor/generator?

 

A Prius doesn't even have a 12V starter. One reason the engine can start in a couple hundred milliseconds is because MG1 can spin it ten times faster than a starter motor spins a conventional engine.

 

electric motor/generator. for that reason, the engine timing has to be corrected almost every time it stops, to be prepared for the next start.

 

what changed mechanically and technologically?

 

i guess i would fall over if they changed the battery at the mid refresh, it's just not their m/o. maybe they'll shock the world.

 

The Prius and many hybrids and plug ins physically disconnect the traction pack. The 12 volt is to boot up the computer and reconnect the battery. Then the traction pack and M/G handle engine starting. That's why these cars have smaller 12 volt batteries, and may not be able to jump start another car.

 

I have jump started several cars with my 2004. The G4 should be better since the battery is bigger and directly accessible under the hood.

 

Then you have done so against the instructions in the owner's manual. At least that what they were in my 2005.

Jump starting can be possible, but doing so with a smaller battery, which might also be a deep discharge type, can cause more damage to the battery.

 

My owners manual has instructions for jump starting other cars.

 

maybe they changed it in '05 after replacing too many batteries under warranty.

 

The Toyota Lion battery will charge, no problem, at well below freezing point, as many here can testify.
You keep referring (here and in other threads) to the battery heater function as "to enable charging" while, IMO its main purpose is to keep battery warmer than ambient temp for up to 3 days to enable more efficient use of it, not to enable charging.

 

Civic Hybrids have a traditional 12v starter that fires in extreme cold, which my kid says is more mornings than not after sitting out all night in its Minnesota driveway parking spot. It will also kick in when the traction battery has a very low SOC, I experienced this only a handful of times when the original pack was in its death throes.

 

With it charging and discharging, the battery shouldn't cool down while driving in EV mode; there are even a couple of fans to help cool it during that time.

Sounds like the battery heater is more about allowing efficient charging in freezing temperatures with minimum charging delay, and to protect it in extreme climates.

Charging Li-ion at freezing and below is possible, but it has to be done under a low current in order to prevent damage. John saw a lower power draw before full power when charging in the cold. The owner's manual also states that charge times will be longer in the cold.

Tideland Prius reports the temperature set point for the heater is 0C. The 3 days of heating isn't a feature in all markets but ones with extreme cold, like Canada or Alaska.

 

Charging on 120V isn't going to generate nearly enough heat to warm the battery in a cold environment.

 

i think he meant while driving.

we've got some primes out there, anyone in cold country that has looked into these features yet?

maybe @Prius Team can give us the official down low.

 

bisco was asking about battery temps while driving. Keeping them cool while in operation is usually the prevailing concern.

 

Okay, I misunderstood. However...

This is still not the correct answer. His question was about what to do when the battery has been cold-soaking for many hours. In that case, it's unlikely to discharge efficiently or warm up sufficiently to do so before it runs out of capacity. You're talking about over 120kg of cold-soaked mass.

It's likely that pre-warming it, even if just a small amount but over a long time (while it's plugged in) will keep that cold-soak from happening and thus allow it to operate more efficiently during its discharge. I don't know how powerful the traction battery heater is, but even a small change in temperature can make a large change in discharge efficiency of this battery type.

I agree that once it is warm, just the act of driving isn't going to allow it to cool, and not least because the cabin heat will help insulate it from the cold. But if you leave the car outside at -15F for hours, which I have done with my 2004 on many occasions, the traction battery isn't going to get up to even freezing temperature before it's depleted, and its discharge efficiency will be horrible during that time.

 

what i'm trying to address is the above. in the pip, i get 16 miles of range in nice weather, and 11 in winter. there's no battery heater, pre heater, post heater, only heat generated by wall charging and driving.
is it possible to create a system where year round range is the same?

 

I was responding to the second line.

The range loss is from more than the cold battery alone. There is also a cold motor, transaxle fluid, tires, etc.