Featured Chevrolet Bolt- 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

Source: AD #2003 – Bolt Could Lose 40% of Battery Capacity, Wireless Charging for Buses, Ranking OEMs by R&D Spending – Autoline Daily

The problem is the gas car community is taking the "40%" loss as gospel about how bad EVs are. I wasn't trying to mislead as much as point out this is how the Bolt is being presented. Worse, it is the same sort of 'take no prisoners' approach GM used to rationalize crushing the EV1s.

Personally, I agree with the warranty saying something along the lines of "battery capacity can decrease over time depending up: (1) heat, (2) deep discharge, (3) <other factors>" Enumerate what kills the battery but don't throw out an arbitrary percentage unless perhaps like 12V lead acid batteries, there is a credit based upon time. For example:

	years	capacity	credit for new battery
1	1	5%	2%
2	2	10%	3%
3	3	15%	4%
4	4	20%	5%
5	5	25%	6%
6	6	30%	7%
7	7	35%	8%
8	8	40%	9%

Like a 12V battery warranty, this assigns a 'credit on the next battery' based upon expected wear and tear. If someone fails to reach 40% after 8 years, no credit. Regardless the battery credit ONLY applies if the owner replaces the battery.

I fully agree with managing expectations but it should be based upon:

• Describing the risk factors (metrics desirable but not required!)
• Describe a schedule of credit for the replacement battery

I've said the same thing as the owners manual but now there is a 'here is what we'll give for credit IF you choose to replace the battery."

Bob Wilson

ps. I probably was inartful in my post but after all, it is GM and we're still owed an apology for the 1980 Chevette.

 

Hey I would go further - 50% range on a cold day going fast with an older bev. But that is why 100 mile bevs aren't going to cut it. With PHEVS you have the option of burning gas, and its going to get rid of those off days.

40% is a lot better than you need to replace a tesla battery every 3 years gibberish that those anti plug people were saying.

So lets look at my 50% on the bolts 238 mile range. I wouldn't buy one if I needed more than 119 miles on a cold fast day without a fast charger. Luckily that is most of america.
Fuel Economy of New All-Electric Vehicles

I think the bigger problem for the bolt is low gas prices which causes it to compete with the volt and prime, and the promise of the likely much better tesla model 3 if you wait until ---- 2018 and put a deposit down, or 2019 if you didn't. Lots of people are waiting as long as gas stays cheap.

I don't expect big credits on these batteries. I expect replacement cells for those prematurely losing range. Then payments just high enough to get them recycled, or repurposed to grid back up.

 

Having a plug a plug in Prius has showed me the lack of charging stations and when you do find them more then 1/2 the time they are occupied. I really wanted to go full electric but until that changes I'm very happy having a gas motor as well. I'm averaging 85-95mpg with only a 11 mile EV range. The Prime would be fantastic if it had a little more room

 

gas prices aside, the problem is perception as well as reality. so we have negative hyperbole in auto mags scaring people away, and we have legitimate range and degradation concerns, even from savvy ev enthusiasts.

on top of this, we have manufacturers who aren't that enthusiastic, because there's little profit if any, and everything is done for zev credits. so they don't want to eat any battery repair costs if they don't have to, and don't mind scaring away potential customers with their warranty guidelines.

even as someone who has experience with ev driving, and would lie a bev, i would prefer a standardized dyne test that measures ev miles when new, and a warranty that covers degradation above x % per year, or something like that, but nowhere near 40%.

it's a triple whammy for ev growth.

 

Drive 100 miles everyday...that is 36K per year...almost 300K in 8 years.
Not a typical driver, more than typical battery degradation.

But you'd still be able to go 100 miles everyday.

Mike

 

in that case, the warranty would only cover you for less than 3 years.

 

Awesome animation, thanks

However, it gives no details of the battery system, little detail of the battery management system, and is for the Volt, not the Bolt.

 

does the volt get the 40% disclaimer?

 

There's not a whole lot out there after the Gen 1 Volt, probably because the Gen 2, Spark EV and the Bolt battery management systems operate similar to the original. Here's a more detailed description to the system.
The Chevrolet Volt Cooling/Heating Systems Explained - GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site

 

We have a few different things in the bolt than the volt. First the volt does not use as much of the state of charge, and there can be more degradation of the battery without reducing energy or power to the driver. Second it is a much less expensive battery for gm to replace. Third a dead battery won't limit your trips in a volt

I've decided the 107 miles (50% of 215) along with superchargers are good enough for me, so the model 3 does not scare me if the battery energy is reduced by either heavy air conditioning or age. YMMV

 

my concern is lugging around a 200 mile battery, when 90% of my driving is under 25 miles.

with gas, it's so simple. another negative for ev's.

 

That's why the Volt works best for me. Even with my drives out of state, to the Jersey shore, etc., I'm still running 72% EV.

 

agreed. i'm just looking to move up from my 65% ev. volt too small, maybe bolt too small, i have to see it. hyundai? probably too small, but we'll see. the pip is close to perfect. i'd love to have the 25 miles and heat pump from prime.

 

Likely not since it is a hybrid with a mandatory emission warranty on the battery.

Using that little of the battery capacity should mean you are far, far from the conditions that would lead to a 40% loss.

 

I was running 14% with the PiP.

 

A good thing happening in this thread are a survey of requirements, individual requirements: @El Dobro, @bisco, and @austingreen. I'll also add my data point which is 72 miles.

In reality we are finding the EV distance distribution is not a bell but weighted curve:


There are a wide set of EV ranges available in the market and one size does not meet all requirements. Thankfully we've got members who have matched their requirements against the products and reasonably brought their baseline and experience.

I am persuaded that 25 miles appears to be a sweet spot, today. That appears to be the median of miles driven around Huntsville in my first six months. But Huntsville has enough 'free' L2 (30A, 240VAC) chargers around town and modified my shopping habits to match their placement:

• 4 mi from work, 13 mi from home, free - Bridge Street has breakfast and lunch, and 1:30 AM, late night bar.
• 5 mi from work, 7 mi from home, free - Whole Foods, not my style of food, has barber shops and walking distance to license and tax office.
• 7 mi from work, 8 mi from home, 40kW DC charger, $0.50 - downtown, courthouse square, comfy bar closes at 11:30 PM, high-end restaurants.
• seldom, 5 mi from work, 6 mi from home, $1/hr, Blink - cow path walkway, 200-800 yards from bars, restaurants.
• tested, unused, 3 mi from home, 8 mi from work - nothing but small business offices and none I work with.
• tested, unused, 8 mi from home, 1 mi from work, 16A (half rate) - cow path walkway, at local University, middle of campus

Change the Huntsville charger infrastructure and the practicality of a 25 mi EV range changes. Today, Huntsville would work for 25 miles. But jack up the charger costs; increase the competition for charging stations; take some out of service, and; the EV range economics change, rapidly. Yet we buy for today, hopefully planning for the future.

Truth be told, having a $20-30k in a ride changes one perspective about charging infrastructure. Having 'skin in the game' means dealing with the realities.

Bob Wilson

 

agreed. gasoline is still king, but will change over time.

 

If I Were One to buy Christmas present for everyone I could I'd have to get you one of these;

That said, forgive Bisco, he hasn't yet caught the fever - but there's still hope for him

.

 

that's very sweet of you hill. let me know if you hit the lottery, i'd be happy to drive a free one.