Thread for All Confirmed Prices.

Chicago area stuff shouldn't affect you out east.

 

idk, we got your politics.

 

I'm not worried. They are still too busy selling as many trucks and SUVs as they can around here. I got my PiP at a discount, I can get the Prime at a discount. I'll bide my time and maybe start looking in early spring or late summer.

 

if everyone bides their time, prices will keep dropping. patience grasshoppers!

 

I listened to What Drives Us this morning and @Danny said that he thought that supplies of the car would be tight because of the production of the carbon fiber hatch. He said that the first shipments were coming to the US and not Japan. And that he felt the car would be a commercial failure even though he thinks it is the best Prius Toyota has made.

Listen to the podcast it is very interesting to hear his perspective on the car.

 

Got my 2005 for MSRP at the time, but I think Toyota was being more suggestive on the price to the dealers for it.

Used gen2s with a California sticker once had a $4000 premium on them. I expect dealers there will try to overcharge because of the current stickers. Limited numbers may make the dealers more successful at this.

I hope Toyota doesn't see it as a commercial failure. While I don't agree with some design decisions for the Prime, I see why Toyota made them, and it looks as if they took the car seriously, and put effort into it.

 

Toyota/Lexus built their own carbon fiber loom years ago - supposedly to avoid production delays.

So i wonder what happened ...
.

 

Sounded like the Prime hatch was outsourced from the Japan release delay announcement.
Perhaps internal production is going to tanks.

 

Great podcast. Danny’s Prime analysis starts at around the 30 minute mark.

Danny sees the Prime not selling well given various pressures including low gas prices and enthusiasts who have already moved on and will see it as too little, too late.

Count me among the significantly more optimistic, primarily because final sales prices are so low that after various government incentives the value should attract new price conscious customers. Also, HOV access in states like California will be a big sales plus. That could mean lots of folks buying the Prime who are entirely new to this segment. Indeed getting the word out to these potential new customers will be key, so we'll see how Toyota advertises this (or not).

For certain, a main commercial failure problem is that the Prime will undercut Liftback sales markedly.

Danny also mentions mixed marketing problems with the Prius in the past. Toyota has previously sent confusing signals such as not having to plug it in. But how many non-enthusiasts could tell us or care what the marketing messages of Toyota or any manufacturer are?

Danny also speculates that Toyota might add back a 5th seat at the midcycle refresh and perhaps lower the deck as battery density increases.

Picking up on Toyota suggestions, he also could see most Liftback models becoming plugins, perhaps leaving the base trim as a non-plug-in hybrid.

Liftback sales with the Gen 4 remain sluggish. Maybe Toyota understands that the glory days of the Prius as a hybrid are behind it, and that it has to move on to plug-ins in the Prius line to be more competitive.

Would bet Toyota is fully aware and prepared to cannibalize Liftback sales with the Prime and envisions a transition to plug-ins with the Prius lineup. The optimist or marketing pitch may be evolution.

 

Hyundai's Ioniq plugin has 5 seats already - but I don't know how its price will compare - as I haven't found that yet. That may be a determining factor how well the pip sells
.

 

Yeah, guessing Toyota was forced into a pricing conundrum with the Prime including considering Ioniq as a competitor and about to roll out. Either undercut the price of the Liftback or face little hope of selling the Prime in volume. Sorry Liftback.

Agree, now ball is in Hyundai's court to price the Ioniq. Game on.

 

5 seats that only holds 3? might be good for car seats or children, we'll see. and with the solid axle, they'll run into the same pushback toyota got.

 

It won't be price. It will be the in-person determination.

Sit in a Volt. Sit in a Prius C. Sit in a Prius Liftback.

The difference really stands out. People will see the same with Ioniq. We already heard that from the few who have already seen it in-person.

 

I think you might be onto something in Toyota being willing to lose Prius sales to the Prime, and eventually having most of the Prius trims have a plug. In addition to the Ioniq arriving, Tesla got all those preorders for the Model 3, and plug ins have been doing well in general since the first PiP came out. During that time, the Mirai has not moved as well as was hoped, so Toyota may be more willing to consider plug ins as a viable product.

Plug ins do well in their current niche scale, because they do appear to draw in a more varied customer base than hybrids have. Toyota is going to have to something to reach them. People that wouldn't consider a hybrid, but might a PHEV, aren't going to be visiting these forums. Doesn't need a plug advertising was mostly from hybrid's early days. The only ad I remember that used it was on the release of the first gen Civic hybrid. Toyota's ads since then have just been...weird, and likely a turn off to most. The gen4 ads are much improved.

The midcycle refresh of the gen1 saw it get the prismatic cells for the first time, and a power boost. I think they are correct in the solar option being a non-starter for North America, and they could make some changes to appeal more to this market for the refresh.

The Ioniq hybrid and PHEV both have an independent rear.

 

thanks, bev solid due to battery size?

 

Yeah, its a torsion beam like in the gen3 and earlier Prii. By using that, Hyundai kept the BEV cargo area the same size as the PHEV.
I wonder if there is usable space in the 'frunk'.

 

Anyone able to negotiate more than a few hundred bucks off MSRP?

 

Who negotiated off a few hundred bucks already? That alone would be phenomenal right out the gate.