2017 Toyota Prius Prime: 25 Miles EV Range, 54 MPG, $22,600*

That's me. But I'll defer judgement until I actually sit in one.

 

It is also frustrating for those just watching plug in development, because it looks like the Prime is a step backwards. The PiP didn't lose the fifth seat or any of the main cargo area. The Prime loses the the fifth seat like the gen1 Volt and as much cargo space as the C-max Energi.

Luckily, it appears these losses aren't because Toyota half-assed the design, but because they tailored the design towards their home market. None of the traction pack could go under the rear seat, because that is where the solar option battery went, and a typical Japanese family is likely smaller than an American one. Along with higher energy prices, this makes efficiency a higher priority than the fifth seat.

So the Prius Prime has potential to correct the shortcomings if the North American model is altered for the market.

 

Why the insistence with Prime having to change backwards?

Toyota is allowed to realign products. After all, the must-be-this-way approach impedes business.

Our market obsesses over SUVs. Why not improve that market with a plug?

 

The missing half seat will turn off some. But the Prime is no step backwards. Many were anxiously awaiting the price and Toyota nailed it. It's a big step forward from the 1st gen and plug-ins generally.

Any of us can give our impressions. Sales numbers will answer the question objectively.

 

The reason for the loss of cargo space and the fifth seat is because of weight and space considerations for the solar roof option and its battery.

It is not because Toyota is trying cause paradigm shift in the way people view and use cars. Otherwise, one of their reps would not have mentioned putting in a fifth was possible.

With the seating and cargo compromises being for an option that is not available for the North American market, calling for some changes to reduce those compromises to make it more appealing in this market are not calls to change it backwards as you see it.

The improved, official efficiency figures and price are the Prime's saving grace. It is also shows Toyota is taking it seriously.

But it is Toyota's second generation plug in hybrid, and it does somethings only as well as some competitors' first generation PHEVs. If we want to see those things improved, we have to call Toyota on it, and not spin these disadvantages as some evolutionary advancement in the automobile.

 

More than doubled prior all EV range is nice. Still improving and highest mpg in a plug-in hybrid is great too.

But the real slam dunk is value. The price to get into a plug-in hybrid with the Prime now is a huge advance for Toyota and the plug-in world.

Sales will show wherein lies the spin.

 

The desire to shift has nothing to do with engineering.

That couldn't be any more vague.

 

Stating that Prime was designed primarily for their domestic market is also a spin IMO, plug-ins are not sold well in Japan. It is designed and priced to fight for the crown of plug-ins sales in the US and hopefully (with the right prices) - in Europe.
Solar roof is offered for Europe, here goes the pathetic argument that the solar roof was added to help the 'poor Japanese' that have outlets with 600W maximum.

 

If they sacrificed anything for the solar option, I'll be very sad about it.

 

The price is really competitive. I think it will have a lot of appeal where I live, considering the $9.5k total tax credit available in Colorado. The Chevy Volt only gets 42mpg once it's battery is discharged, compared with 54mpg for the Prime. For someone like me whose driving is a mix of mostly either short trips around town, or long 200+ mile trips, the extra 28 mile range of the Volt wouldn't play much of a factor in my decision.

 

Whoa!

 

Over-delivered by far.

 

253 watt hours per mile. I'll bet some of us will crush that on some routes.

I would think that would result in a slight estimated range increase from 25 miles to 27 miles unless it's all in charge efficiency.

 

I have to recalculate:
EPA 133 MPGe is 25.3 kWh from the wall per 100 miles.
0.253kWh/mile times 25miles = 6.34 kWh from wall or 5.38 kWh usable battery capacity (assuming 15% losses) or ~61% of total devoted to EV. Very similar to PiP percent.

 

You can say that again!

 

The price and official range and efficiency are what many were hoping for. That doesn't change the fact that many were also disappointed by the seating and cargo.

What do you want clarified?

speaking of vague.

Toyota has predicted annual gobal sales of 60k for both the Prime and PiP in the past. Of the PiP's 40k were going to be in Japan, and now they are hoping for 30k there.

While plug in sales have done poorly at home, Toyota still hopes for this to change.

Home charging in parts of Europe are more limited than in the US.

In my case, a 30 mile one way commute, with no chance of charging at work means the Volt will use less gas overall. For the 600 mile trip to my parents, we take the 2001 Sable that sees <3000 miles are year. Which actually makes a BEV a better choice for my commute.

Considering what the Prime weighs, the extra weight needed for a fifth seat shouldn't require much in the way changes to other aspects of the car, like the suspension.

There is likely an arbitrary weight limit, something set by testing regulations, that Toyota is trying to stay under. Weight reduction helps efficiency, which is why the Two Eco strips of the rear wiper and ditches the spare. It also let the car be tested under easier test conditions for Japanese testing, because Toyota got it down to a lower weight class.

 

Why not starting speaking for yourself only? Who exactly do you represent?

 

Whoa!

Isn't that like saying someone takes a test with 10-20 categories, does way better on 90% of them, a few categories best in the whole class, but a bit worse on 1-2 of the categories? One can still ace the test and set a new high standard for the entire class.

Agree that as a stand-alone “feature” there aren’t too many ways to rationalize the drop from 5 to 4 seats as a plus.

However, considering the trade-offs, there is at least one more benefit. Toyota is now able to handily undercut the Lift-back in price (after current incentives) but maintain enough marketing differentiation for that customer who must have a Prius but can’t live without the 5th seat.