2017 Toyota Prius Prime: 25 Miles EV Range, 54 MPG, $22,600*

When I sat in the back of a Volt, I had sufficient head room (I'm only 5'6"), but my calves touched my chair and my shins touched the chair in front of me. The guy up there is only 5'10".

It was okay - for 20 minutes. After that, I wouldn't be okay with it.

I once had a guy that's 6'7" in the back of my Prius and he said it was just fine.

 

how many current production cars have only 4 seats? anyone care to name them?

why does this argument keep coming up? if people want 5 seats, they want 5 seats. it's not spin, it's a fact.
and toyota has already said they can do 5 seats if necessary, so let's see how sales go. once all the cali hov cars have been sold.

 

The problem in my opinion is, a Prius isn't wide enough for three people to sit comfortably. I've had three people back there exactly twice, both times for a few blocks, and none of them were over 100 pounds. Still too tight. So, it's a four-passenger car in my opinion no matter if it's a bench or two buckets.

 

I took a family of 3 German friends visiting us plus my son from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon back to Phoenix. It was tight, but we did it. Their son is 6' 6" 240 lbs. He sat in front mostly. We would have had to paid for a rental car if we were limited to 4 seats..

 

Wow...I can't imagine that.

I guess I'm lucky. I have a family of four and we're all little. I also have a second car that's a six passenger.

 

it's not personal, no car manufacturer can make one size fits all. it doesn't matter if it will work for me, or won't. what matters is how many people will it work for. 4 passenger vehicles are rare, and i can't wait for the proponents to post the list, with annual sales.

 

Ford Mustang Premium Fastback, BMW i3, BMW i8, Porsche Panamera, Toyota Mirai, Toyota Prius Prime, Aston Martin DB9 GT Volante, 2016 Audi A3 Cabriolet, 2016 BMW 228i 2 Series Convertible, 2016 Chevrolet Camaro Convertible, 2016 Buick Cascada, 2016 FIAT 500c, 2016 Jeep Wrangler, 2016 MINI Cooper Convertible, 2016 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible, 2016 Volkswagen Eos, etc. And a whole crap load of BMWs that I'm not going list.


Unsupervised!

 

thanks! can you post sales numbers? probably fit on the head of a pin.

 

Luxury vehicles sell in much smaller quantities and their business model supports that approach. Toyota's approach with Prime won't mimic that, since we've already been told of mainstream intentions. How does one gauge successful change? demand? interest? For that matter, what about the cargo area height? Hatchbacks don't feature that as perk anyway. Their advantage is offering length & width well beyond that of a sedan.

Sadly, we may never find out. Things as simple as mid-cycle color changes are even a problem to measure influence. What if people are just waiting for the first year or two of sales before jumping on board? A jump in gas prices mays change the equation too.

The most realistic consideration is to look at the bigger picture. Toyota has roughly 158,000 tax-credits available before triggering the phaseout. Won't that come right around mid-cycle? Toyota may do something then to stir interest...

 

You'd be surprised what can fit on the head of a pin...

 

So according to the amazing price point... I think it's reasonable to buy this prime with a solar roof for 30k. I don't think it's too expensive contrary to what Toyota says

 

Yes, after seeing it could add 3 miles a day, that tips my EV to just over 50% of my commute instead of just under.

 

At the rate of battery tech progress, by the mid-cycle refresh, maybe the batteries would get just lighter and smaller enough to cram in that 5th seat everyone is crying about, while still offering the same amount of range. There should be enough demand to burn through all those tax credits by then, hopefully the prices will be able to fall naturally as well.

 

Only if I can rip off the solar roof and throw it in the trash.

 

They'll be on the gen V by the time the batteries get significantly better.

 

Glad to see that the the Premium turned out to be not that much more than the Plus, considering all that you get with it. I was sweating that one a little bit because I have had 3-door Smart Key for over ten years now in my Gen II and have become quite set in my ways about it. Now it looks like I can get that, along with of course the other goodies in the Premium package without breaking the bank.

 

I only post about the four seats because it was made into a big deal for the gen1 Volt, so Toyota can't claim to be unaware about the perception when they designed the Prime.

The fact is Toyota prioritized the Prime design for Japan. No problem with that, but it left car with compromises that could hurt sales in the US. Spinning them as not that bad or pluses can be true for some, but it is still spin, and Toyota hints five seats are possible. So they are aware that these compromises can hurt sales.

Why not share that info instead of being coy?

I'll address the Volt down below.

I see that some are two door cars. Some are luxury brands with price tags higher than the Prime, at least one starts at nearly three times the Prime's starting price. Others are convertibles, and there is plenty of overlap among them.

People buying two door cars aren't concerned with regular rear passengers at all. The safety regulations and added equipment for a convertible might make producing a five seat one impracticable. Luxury cars get into the whole "the owner will be sitting in the back" argument. It also occurs to me that many are also RWD in addition to one or more of the three categories. Having ridden in the middle rear seat of a '79 Camaro, I'll attest that the required transmission tunnel can intrude on upon that seating position, along with the lack of ease two doors provide.

I'm going to pull out the Fiat and i3, and add the Chevy Spark to their number. These are A segment cars. Making them two segments smaller than the Prime.

In short, these are not cars that a person looking for a small to midsize family car of a non-luxury brand(is there a better term for them?) is going to look at.

I'm 5'10, and when sitting properly in the back of the 2005 Prius, my head brushed against the rear window. Rear passengers weren't going to be a regular for me, and why the slightly smaller gen1 Volt having only four seats wasn't one either.

For the people that were making it an issue, weren't talking about taking 5 adults on a long trip though. They were talking about short ones, under 20 minutes, like taking co-workers to lunch, or they were talking about young children. For a family with 2 or three older children, the Volt isn't going to work as a family hauler, and likely neither would a Prius, Cruze, or Corolla.

That's because you are an American used to cheap fuel. To Europeans, the Prius is a large car.

GM improved range and battery performance of the Volt during its gen1 life cycle. The same with the Spark EV and maybe the iMiEV. Nissan switched chemistries when it proved the original Leaf pack couldn't handle South West temperatures.

 

That’s two generations ago and a different topic.

I’m 6’2" and have sat in the back in a Gen 3 or 4 Prius to answer this very question. Having done that, one will note that ~6’2” and average torso/leg length is the limit where one does not have to sit awkwardly and head barely touches the roof. There are no rear window issues.

If you haven’t sat in the back of a Gen 2 Volt, try that as well. Over 5'10", it’s not just uncomfortable but dangerous. An accident of ~20+ mph impact could cause significant head/neck trauma.

Theoretically we could put 4 seatbelts in the back of a small or midsize sedan and call it a 6-seater. But then there is theoretical and practical reality...

 

My main point was that the people that wanted five seats in the back of the Volt weren't asking so they could take five adults across country. They wanted it in order to take five adults on a short trip in town, or for their young children. Mostly it was for their third kid.

The Volt is still a compact by the EPA, and GM is not trying to call it a family car. Those looking at it and the Prime need to test sit them, and consider their expected regular use of the back seat.

I mentioned my 2005 Prius, because your safety concerns applied to it, and those concerns apply to many cars of the same size and profile.

Kudos to Toyota for improving the rear head room of the Prius. Then again, it could just have been they only expected owners with chauffeurs to be buying it.

 

they are certainly trying to fudge the numbers so it would look more spacious than what it is... while Prius Prime definetly has a big shortcoming being 4 seater, at the same time Volt has big shortcoming in lack of rear space. Ioniq is also less spacious than Prius at the back.

 

Personally I'm okay with four seats, for me the priority is comfort for the adult passengers that I do carry. And as I said in another thread on this topic, I can never get three adults willing to jam into the back of my Prius anyway if there is another car available. Lee Jay said something similar in this thread.

Nevertheless all of the points in favor of five seats are valid for someone wanting flexibility for short rides, or someone with children who needs that extra seat. I'm sure it's frustrating for those for whom the Prius Prime was so close, and yet so far because of this one shortcoming. At least there are hints that it may be an option in the future.