Featured Justify a hybrid

Being a newbie to the hybrid world, I can only offer the perspective of a recent "pre-owned" purchaser (x2). In searching for used cars, we were initially looking at Corollas and Civics. After a salesman talked us into taking a ride in a Prius and seeing what it had to offer, for us, it was a no-brainer. Since pricing right now has been more competitive on the hybrids: buy 2 Prii at great prices, and enjoy the very well known reliability as well as incredible fuel economy.

*I do realize this thread is geared more toward the value of a new purchase. Just wanted to add used buyer perspective

 

Here's how I compare conventional gas cars to the Prius. I make an assumption about gas price (say $2/gal) and miles driven per year (say the US average of 13476 miles/year). I compare to other automatic 5 door hatchbacks with similar passenger+cargo volume, cheapest model with a backup camera. I estimate maintenance costs based on a $50 oil/filter change every 5000 miles, a $250 brake job every 50000 miles (except for Prius), and one tire replacement using tirerack tripletred prices. I estimate repair costs based on data from truedelta for repair frequency and average cost for years 4,5,6&7 of ownership (before that repairs are assumed to be covered by warranty). Using MSRP, I assume the cars are fully financed at 3.26% for 7 years. Using fuelly average fuel consumption, I add up the monthly costs of the loan, fuel, maintenance and repairs.

Using this method, a base 2016 Prius is cheaper than an Elantra GT GLS Tech, Focus Hatch SE and Golf S 1.8T. There is no "payback period" with this calculation. The Prius saves money right from the beginning, every month. After the cars are paid off, the Prius continues to save on fuel, maintenance and repairs. By my calculations, the Mazda3 Sport GS, Forte5 EX AT and Impreza Touring 5dr come out slightly cheaper than the Prius by up to about $25/month. This could change if you drive more miles/yr or gas costs more. Of course, discounts and incentives also make a difference and every car has its own strengths and weaknesses that can sway a decision.

 

whether it's a motorhome, civic, harlery, suburban, tesla, F150, or (your name here ....) whatever . . . . . vehicle transportation does NOT break even or pay back. They each have drawbacks, and each have a better use than others ... but they never - ever pay it back

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Glad to hear...but isn't the better comparison where you can take the hybrid vs. ICE like Fusion, Civic, Camry, and Corolla for Prius? I am rusty but 13476 sounds high is that Canada or USA - thought UMich was closer to 11000? That's a pretty high miles per year, but yes the more miles you put on, the more hybrid math works. Also the longer you hold. At 10-yrs. I now get $500/month cash from the car

 

And yet, if we include the so-called externalities (I say 'so-called' because there's nothing external about them), it's difficult to justify burning any gas at all. In a full-cost comparison, hybrids and electrics are much cheaper than gas burners. But no, fudge a few numbers here, ignore a few over there, and 'Hey, you should buy this!'

 

I googled to get the US average miles/year and that's what came back. In fact it said US males drive 16550 miles and US males aged 35-54 drive 18858 miles. The Prius is an automatic 5 door hatchback so I think it is completely valid to compare it to other automatic 5 door hatchbacks. A backup camera is a useful feature you use every trip. I think most buyers today want one. The Camry, Fusion and CMax all have significantly more passenger space than a Prius. The Focus sells over 200K/year, the Elantra sold over 240K vs the Prius at 113K US sales in 2015. If those buyers realized they could save money with a Prius, maybe Prius sales would go up. The Civic and Corolla are hard to beat -- their price is lower and their fuel economy is quite good. Neither is a hatchback.

My point is that, even with today's gas prices, the 2016 Prius competes well against popular comparable conventional gas vehicles. Note that my analysis used the 2016 model year. I'll have to redo it for 2017. The analysis for Canada or other countries would be quite different since car prices, feature packages and fuel prices all vary significantly.

 

OK but what I am saying for the sake of hybrid math argument, pick Camry vs. Camry Hybrid. And you get a hybrid premium number that used to be in the range of $4000 (not sure now). In the case of Prius, we do not have the non-hybrid Prius. So it's hypothetical: but can you save $3000-$4000 needed to break even on a hybrid? I agree Prius is a competitive, cost-effective vehicle.

UMich is probably talking about miles per average vehicle owned. But yes we used to put 18000/yr on so that helps.

 

Corolla iM is 2600 mm wheelbase.

Contrast with Prius c at 2550, Prius at 2700, Prius v at 2780.

Also note that the standard Corolla is 2700 mm wheelbase - it's essentially based on the Gen 3 Prius chassis now.

One problem with comparing fuel efficient vehicles to base models is, what do you actually want? If you don't want the additional features that the fuel efficient vehicle has to mask its cost premium, then the entire additional price needs to be considered as a "hybrid premium" (or a "diesel premium" for diesels). If you do want the additional features, then it works out differently of course. (Myself, had I even considered a Corolla (I wouldn't have), I'd have ended up with about the same equipment, so...)

And, in many states, emissions aren't taxed as long as they're within the legal limits for that model year...

 

I don't think you can fully compare technologies, but you can compare particular vehicles. There are good hybrids and not so good hybrids. Good gas vehicles and not so good ones. The new Prius is kicking it up a notch wrt fuel economy on fuelly (and spritmonitor too). That translates into cost competitiveness when you consider all-in costs. Its battery no longer takes up cargo space, its styling has been updated and its driving dynamics are now up to par. You just put gas in it, you don't plug it in. Drives just like a normal car. It is no longer a special type of vehicle appealing only to some buyers. Prius reliability is proven -- it has the best long-term power-train reliability of any compact car according to longtermqualityindex stats on over 1M US trade-ins (that includes battery failures). There is really no downside to buying one. It is a mainstream car now and should be selling like one. It should no longer be treated as a "hybrid" (with all the baggage in some people's minds that goes along with that). It should be treated as one of the best, most cost-effective gasoline powered cars. There is no premium. It is zero.

 

here is most recent
Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group
Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group

Age Male Female Total
16-19 8,206 6,873 7,624
20-34 17,976 12,004 15,098
35-54 18,858 11,464 15,291
55-64 15,859 7,780 11,972
65+ 10,304 4,785 7,646
Average 16,550 10,142 13,476
Back to ONH page

but there are more cars than drivers which is average car goes a little less or around 11,000 per year. YMMV. My brother who owns a camry hybrid used to drive 18,000 miles/year, but my nephew and sister in law drive much less so the 3 car household does around that UM average.

The camry hybrid was a good choice for him back then. He will probably get a tesla model 3 like me on the next car ;-)

 

Traitor

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I agree except that there is a premium. The Corolla is the same size, and actually has more cabin space. Its highest trim starts a couple of thousand under the base Prius. There is the Corolla iM if they need a hatch. The price difference can be covered in fuel saving and lower maintenance costs, but that isn't what people see.

 

can you buy a corolla I'm in the states? never heard of it.
nevermind, just googled it. nice looking car, wish they made a hybrid or plug in version.
hatch looks less deep than prius, but i want to see one and get a feel for space.

 

They make a hybrid version but just don't sell it in the US. 2016 Toyota Corolla Hybrid review | first drive | CarsGuide If they made them in Mississippi and priced them with the same profit margin as the camry then it would undercut the prius, and hurt Japanese jobs ;-) They even have a phev corolla for china.

I really don't think there is much differentiation on corolla/camry hybrid versus prius so from a business point of view there is not a reason to sell the corolla hybrid in the US.

 

It was going to be just the iM as a Scion.
It is a little smaller than the American Corolla, and is called the Auris in much of the rest of the world. Some places get a hybrid.
Toyota Auris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Justify a hybrid?

Regarding costs, the numbers can be run. And you can more or less make the numbers work for or against.

Regarding the car itself? That's easier. Fewer trips to the gas station. Less money spent on gas. Less money going to foreign companies. No vibration or noise or pollution when stopped in traffic. No transmission shifting/clunking. I'm sure we can all come up with a long list of benefits.

Some people like to drive expensive cadillacs, or corvettes, or hummers, or lamborghinis, or whatever. What is the justification for a $50,000+ car to go grocery shopping?

To me, a car is a tool, it gets me where I need to go. I want it to do it reliably, at reasonable cost. That's all the justification I need.

 

Since people want to talk about premiums and Corollas, what about the "hatchback premium"? For the Focus, it is almost 2 grand. For the Elantra it is over $1500. I know hatchbacks are not so popular in the US but many of us really value their cargo carrying capability. I've carried boilers, hot water tanks, lumber and loads of flooring in my Prius -- I could never have done that in a Corolla. I don't have another bigger vehicle to use. I have one car for all my needs, like many people.

I'll say it again. The Prius is a 5 door automatic hatchback. For average drivers, it is cost competitive with other comparable conventional 5 door automatic hatchbacks even at today's gas prices. I'm not saying it is the best car for everyone. I'm not saying that there aren't other cars that are cheaper. If you want a Corolla, buy one. If you are looking at a Focus Hatchback or Elantra GT or Golf, you should also consider a Prius. It may cost you less, not just in the long run, but for every month of your ownership. If you only have enough money for a Focus, it may be worth your while to borrow the extra funds to buy a Prius instead. The gas savings every month may cover your loan payments. I think people can understand that.

Thanks austingreen for verifying my miles/yr value. Let's not talk, though, about 3 car households. Let's talk about single car families where there may be 2 or 3 drivers for one car. Where that car needs to be used for everything: commuting, trips, moving stuff. Where that car needs to work reliably or life breaks down. Where expensive car repairs mean there is no money for rent. Where a car needs to be financed over 7 years to keep the payments affordable. Where a car needs to last 10,12,15 years. The 2016 Prius can be a good choice for those people due to its exceptional fuel economy, hatchback versatility and proven reliability.

 

I know 3 years ago, when I was purchasing my Prius, I didn't feel I was really paying much if any "Hybrid Premium".

I paid, roughly 22,000 for a Prius Two. Which came standard with keyless entry, push button start, obviously automatic transmission (eCVT) and cruise control...all things on most other vehicles you pay extra for in some form or another. Then...on top of all that, you got the Hybrid reality. HSD.

3 years earlier I had spent nearly 19,000 on a Honda Fit Sport, basically to get an automatic, with keyless entry, (no push button start) and cruise control. At that time, just to get cruise control, you were forced to step up to the "Sport" model.

So at the time, I saw the Prius as being bigger, even better equipped, and really not that much more than similar ICE alternatives.

 

The Corolla iM is a hatchback, and as a former Scion, it is pretty much loaded with all the tech must haves, including navigation. It isn't based on the American Corolla, but is actually the Auris. This means it falls between the Prius and Prius c in size, but it is big enough to be a midsize car. With the automatic, it is $4700 cheaper than the Prius Two. That will cover almost 10 years of the extra fuel used by the iM.

The Prius is a nice car, and more people should look at it, but people walking a dealer lot see that they can a Camry, a more comfortably sized car, or Rav4, more cargo, for the same price as a Prius.