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Range versus speed

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by Lee Jay, Sep 18, 2016.

  1. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I have a spreadsheet I built for calculating energy consumption. When I do the math for a Prime with 8.8kWh available, I get a range of about 75 miles at 40mph not including losses for acceleration/deceleration or accessories, both of which can be significant in some cases. It drops to 45 miles at 65mph (again, without losses for stopping and starting or keeping cool or warm).

    It looks to me like the range on moderate-speed trips should be a whole lot longer than it is on high-speed trips.

    If 22 miles is conservative for the US driving cycle, which includes high speeds and lots of acceleration/deceleration, does it make sense that it could be easily a heck of a lot more (like double) for a bunch of steady 35-40mph? I have a regular trip that is almost all steady 40mph with very few stops and starts, 27 miles round-trip. I calculated the energy use for that trip at 3.7kWh, not including accessories.
     
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  2. drysider

    drysider Active Member

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    8.5kwh is the equivalent of a bit over 1/4 gallon of gas. At 40mph, getting 50mpg, you would use about 1 1/2 gallons of gas to go 75 miles. A gallon of gas is about 33kwh, which is around 50kwh for the 75 miles. Even taking efficiencies into account, I think you need to fine tune your spreadsheet.
     
  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The average efficiency of the gas engine is around 30% (peaks at 40%), while the electric system is more like 90%.
     
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  4. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    I can imagine that when you assume constant speed the range will be much longer than when you have to vary the speed several times. Do you calculate it from the air resistance? How do you estimate the energy (heat) loss due to resistance of the moving parts in the car, and in the electric components and wires?
     
  5. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I used air drag, rolling drag, and an assumed electric efficiency of 85%.
     
  6. drysider

    drysider Active Member

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    That is why I mentioned efficiencies. If you assume the battery is twice as efficient as the engine, you will still need 25kwh for the trip.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think you're way, way, way off. pip goes 11 miles on 4.4 kWh. prime should do a little better than double, based on increased gen 4 efficiencies.
     
  8. drysider

    drysider Active Member

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    From the numbers you are posting, I would guess that there is a decimal point off somewhere.
     
  9. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    No. I get around 70mpg on steady 40mph with my gen 2. And the electric system is three times as efficient, not twice.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    My numbers are correct - Cd = 0.25, A=2.22m^2, RR=0.008. Do the math yourself for 40mph (18m/s) at my air density of 1.05kg/m^3.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you're missing something. have you plugged the pip into your formula?
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Same.
     
  13. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Let me be clear. What I'm asking is if owners think that driving at a steady 40mph would yield 50-100% more range than the EPA-estimated range.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    40 mph would yield me around 11. 20 mph yields around 18.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    do we know the new us driving cycle? pips 11 miles is based on the old one.

    there was talk in another thread of prime possibly yielding 35 miles on back roads.
     
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    And that's likely with accessories and some stopping and starting (i.e. acceleration losses).
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no a/c, but hard to do 18 miles without stopping. john1701a has a lot of driving video's. i wonder if he has anything with very few stops.
    maybe 40 mph would do 15 miles, you're talking me into it. 60 mph would be a fairly easy test, no stopping and fairly flat. the difficulty is getting to the highway. pip eats up 4 miles of ev with the engine warming up, so that would only leave a 10 mile estimate.
     
    #17 bisco, Sep 18, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  18. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Let me put this another way. On this route, I usually average around 65mpg on my 2004, with the AC running full time.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    hey, it might be possible. the worst thing is when you run out a mile from home.
     
  20. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Not for me - the last mile is all coasting for me!
     
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