Featured Chevy Bolt to have 238 Mile Range

Awesome!!!

 

What style of DC connector?

Are GM dealers going to establish a nationwide network of chargers?

Bob Wilson

 

I think they're going with CCS (Combined Charging System) that the Europeans are going with.

One would hope GM offers some incentives for the dealers to install at least one CCS charger at their lots. But most probably won't because of the costs, and likely because they're not in a very convenient location.

Though I don't plan to buy one, this is still exciting news, because GM has upped the ante quite considerably. The other automakers are now going to have to offer something very similar, or at least cheaper, if they want to compete.

I don't think anyone's going to want a 84-107 mile ranged Leaf now, unless Nissan drops the price to say, $25k pre-tax credit. Otherwise people will just wait for the Bolt to come out, and get nearly 2-3 times the range, along with updated electronics, for about the same price.

Of course, a potential drawback is the lack of fast charging stations, which may limit this car to a regional area. So Tesla doesn't have to worry about that if this is a strict requirement for someone buying a longer ranged EV.

But for someone just commuting to work and back, and maybe some local driving, it should be a winner. You can definitely tell OPEC and Big Oil to kiss your gas when they try to jack up prices again.

Now it's a question of whether or not the dealers are going to promote any of these, along with the GM marketing team advertising them and showing them off to potential customers via tv commercials and the auto show circuit. I think borrowing Nissan's tagline of "never need gas again" would definitely pique some people's interests.

 

Sorry to hear about the "Combo 2 DC Plug" as it is incompatible with the SAE-combo use by my BMW: EV DC Fast Charging standards – CHAdeMO, CCS, SAE Combo, Tesla Supercharger, etc | The Long Tail Pipe


<SIGH>It appears there is a pattern that no consistent DC charging plugs will ever exist. Each manufacturer is pretty well making their DC plugs unique. I suspect there is a business opportunity here.

Bob Wilson

 

That's a perfect range.
The Bolt will be an outright competitor for the Tesla ≡

 

WOW! That should mean closer to 200 real highway miles. That changes things.

Bolt webpage is now in the "official" lineup of vehicles: 2017 Bolt EV: All-Electric Vehicle | Chevrolet

 

Right! My wife could commute for about 2 weeks on a single charge! Amazing.

I just bought my Gen 4 so I will not be in the market again for a long time but my wife's lease is over half way done so this might be a possibility come that time to start looking....or the prime.

 

I certainly hope not. One of the last places I want would want to hang out is at a dealership (any brand). I seriously looked at a Leaf back in 2010 (two test drives, working numbers, etc) but the only way I could use it for regular travel would be to fast charge at a competing dealership in another town. They were also in a section of town where they needed to lock down their lot (and charger) after hours, etc. No thanks.

Besides, VW should be building out much of the network as a fine for cheating. "As part of a preliminary settlement over its use illegal "defeat device" software in diesel cars, Volkswagen is expected to pay for new electric-car charging infrastructure." Oversight of $2 billion VW electric-car funds required, charging companies say

 

The EPA highway estimate is probably about 217. City is about 255.

 

I should have added "for me" as I rarely hit EPA highway ratings in any vehicle due to my hot and windy environment with 70+mph roads. I suspect I could regularly achieve 275 city and maybe closer to 300 during our mild winters.

 

No, no, no. The Bolt will have the same "Type 1" SAE CCS DC plug as your BMW i3. The Opel Ampera-e version of the Bolt EV will have the same Euro "Type 2" version of the CCS plug as a European BMW i3. Same goes for VW group (Audi) cars and Mercedes etc.

Essentially only Nissan is selling cars with CHAdeMO plugs in North America and Europe. Mitsubishi sells some on their Outlander PHEV. Hyundai/Kia appear to be switching to CCS for DC.

VW is probably going to spend much of their EPA/CARB $200 million a year for 10 years for zero emission infrastructure fine on installing high speed CCS/CHAdeMO DC charging stations that can run at 200A+. Those stations can charge any car that is DC capable (Tesla via an adapter).

 

The Prime will become "choice" after the Bolt release......

 

sweet

CCS and no. GM is investing a minimal amount into charging infrastructure, if any. I suspect this is a bone for the dealers.

I believe Nissan has already announced the next gen Leaf will be in the 200 mile camp, and I am hoping the Ioniq BEV will be near $25k.

Yes, Tesla will retain the edge when it comes to buyers wanting a BEV for long trips.

The Combo 2 CCS plug is only used in Europe, and that is due to the fact that they use IEC type 2 for AC level 2 charging instead of the SAE J1772/IEC type 1 plug that we use in North America. Considering that the basic wall outlet between the two regions isn't the same, it would have been a miracle to get the same plug type used for plug ins in those regions. Plug shape aside, it is the same CCS standard.

The CCS outlet on the Bolt will be the same CCS outlet on your North American i3.

While having two different, "open source" standards is annoying, it isn't as bad as the betamax/VHS or BlueRay/HD DVD conflicts. It isn't relevant to home chargers, and the extra cost of having both plugs on a public DC level 2 charger is small compared to the cost of the charger and installing it.

Tesla has their own standard because Chademo was the only standard finalized at the time, and it wasn't fast enough. I wish another car maker would buy into the Supercharger standard. I think it is the superior one because of the flexibility in outlet options. And until VW builds their 300kW charger, it is the fastest.

While Tesla doesn't offer a CCS adapter, they did join CharIN, the European manufacturing group promoting CCS there.

Combined Charging System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Thanks! I get so tired to reading about the three different styles of chargers. In one respect, I can understand the Nissan and Tesla decisions. They needed to ship product. But anything other than the SAE combo "SAE CCS DC" is truly nuts.

BTW, I just bought J1772_201210, "SAE Electric Vehicle and Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle Conductive Charge Coupler". There were so many Level 2 chargers but my BMW i3-REx is rate limited to the onboard 7.2kW charging circuit. At home, I have a NEMA 14-50 wired to 50A. In theory:

• 240VAC * 30A = 7.2 kW (sustained load) -> 3 hrs for my 18.7 kW battery (not counting taper)
  
• 240VAC * 40A = 9.6 kW (sustained load) -> 2 hrs for my 18.7 kW battery (not counting taper)
  
• 240VAC * 50A = 12 kW (short duration, 1-2 hrs) -> 1.5 hrs for 18.7 kW battery (not counting taper)
• 240VAC * 80A = 19.2 kW (short duration, 1-2 hrs) -> <~1 hrs for 18.7 kW battery (not counting taper)

So I'm wondering what are the current limits of the L2 chargers that are becoming more common. To me they look like a split phase, AC power on demand that is fairly common. A 12 kW DC supply powered by a 50 A Level 2 charger would cut my wait time from 3 hrs to 1.5 hrs.

The devil is in the details and we'll see. Sorry to sound skeptical but they'll probably put the d*mn things in their dealerships and lock them up after business hours.

Bob Wilson

 

The "spin" in US news is pretty glaring;\
Chevrolet's electric Bolt beats Tesla Model 3 on range

It's as though the Bolt was already on the road - its epa #'s already established - & over 1,000 logs of fuelly - when in fact the car doesn't even go into production until what ... next year? And still no word on how big the largest pack available will be, for the model 3. Then there's the SAE infrastructure challenge. You're lucky to find any of 'em even in crowded metro areas where they're regularly near 300 miles apart. So how's that working out for GM ... neglecting to push or subsidize the infrastructure that they chose to implement, rather than CHAdeMO.
who knows - maybe GM will come up w/ an adapter to utilize CHAdeMO, just as Tesla has already done.
.

 

Must have been a database error:

I would only add I could never go EV until they had at least the range to go from Huntsville-to-Nashville, 120 miles. But the BMW i3-REx solved the problem with the required safety features we needed.

Bob Wilson

 

John Voelcker from greencarreports has driven one, and got 240 miles of range out of it. And strongly hints that it was on the low end out of four Bolts that were also driven by other journalists on the same route.

Can't wait to see them do a winter driving range test on one.

2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV first drive: 240 miles in an electric car

 

is there any downside to owning one, and only driving 10 miles most days?

 

Part of the blame falls on CHAdeMO. The group chose short term greed in the way of high licensing fees over long term market penetration and standard acceptance.

It is disappointing that GM isn't investing in infrastructure. I believe this is mostly to appease their dealers, who rely on ICE maintenance for income.

Some will say you have sacrifice potential efficiency by carrying around the weight of the battery you aren't using.
I say you will likely never have to worry about range loss during the time you own the car.