Polar Ice For 2016

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Dec 23, 2015.

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  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    While far from unanimous, it looks like many of the sea ice charts are showing this year's coverage to already be the second lowest ever recorded, lower than last year's minimum. But the record low of 2012 appears safe from challenge.

    That three decades of cooling ahead, keeps staying stubbornly around the next corner ahead and out of view.
     
    #121 fuzzy1, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  2. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Sea ice has next to nothing to do with air temperature anyway.PMO is cooling sea surface temps so yes there will be an Arctic ice recovery.You will all have egg on your faces as your AGW theory melts away.
    Arctic ice volume is probably double what it was a few years ago due to multiyear ice thickness today. But keep on believing in your unicorn.
    Dont bother to reference Antarctic sea ice which has been at above normal levels for the past few years .
    If it doesnt fit your theory then ignore it.
     
    #122 mojo, Sep 11, 2016
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "Arctic ice volume is probably double"
    This would suggest you have a better source than
    Polar Science Center » PIOMAS Arctic Sea Ice Volume Reanalysis
    Or at least more amenable eh?

    "Dont bother to reference Antarctic sea ice"
    Oh but I must
    Sea Ice Index
    Antarctic ice enxtent anomalies.png
    Yes there is a small upward slope over this time. One might wonder about the longer term though eh?

    Cannot quote the last line of above post. Too darn easy.
     
    #123 tochatihu, Sep 11, 2016
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  4. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Area Of Thick Arctic Ice Has Tripled In Four Years | Real Science

     
    #124 mojo, Sep 11, 2016
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I.e. compared to 2012. I noted previously that the record low of 2012 is not being challenged this year.

    How does this thick Arctic ice compare to the years, or any year, before 2012?
    It seems that you haven't looked again since 2014.
     
    #125 fuzzy1, Sep 11, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    #126 fuzzy1, Sep 11, 2016
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Crystal Serenity is anchoring in Bar Harbor Maine. I think their final destination is New York. Regardless, they've done the NorthWest Passage.

    As for the Northabout: We have the radar on, to spot the big icebergs in these waters. It's pitch black outside and the watches are lonely and cold. No stars - The Polar Ocean Challenge

    N 73 51 W 074 24 Pressure 996 Air1 water 3.4 UTC 0530 13 Sept

    Well after a horrid night of avoiding ice, this mornings watch was a delight. The mountains either side of Lancaster sound were so clear. Covered in new snow. Glaciers coming down to the waters edge. A few big icebergs ahead.

    We are now on our way across Baffin Bay. We exited Lancaster Sound, the entrance for the North West Passage. Had we really done it? 3 long years of planning and dreaming. 3 long years of sweat, blood and tears.

    We crossed the line, so many people to THANK. You all know what you did to make this such a success.
    . . .    ​

    Their final destination is Bristol UK.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #127 bwilson4web, Sep 13, 2016
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    [​IMG]
    This is a second, round-the-world record that appears to soon finish in 2016. The first was a solar powered airplane that took a more equatorial route. But unlike that flight, this single-season, sailing effort has history going back over a century and littered with graves and sunken boats.

    The USS Nautilus transited the North Pole on 3 August 1958 and could have completed the same effort but not on the surface ... at some risk of Cold War tensions. Today there are a lot of nuclear submarines who could do the same route any season, under the ice.

    There have been some speculation that a nuclear powered, cargo submarine might make Arctic shipping practical. It would have the added benefit of no CO{2} underway and not require much of a pressure hull.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #128 bwilson4web, Sep 15, 2016
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  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "...nuclear submarines who could do the same route any season..." Not a problem, but not a meaningful goal either. US boomers get as close to Russia as possible for short missile-flight times. Santa is out of the picture.

    "...nuclear powered, cargo submarine might make Arctic shipping practical..." This is a heaping steamy pile of dung. Meant with as little offense as possible :eek:

    Cargo ships have huuuge surface areas because of all those big boxes. Put those underwater (1000x more viscosity), and buy fuel. Try to find an idiot to pay for your enterprise.

    Our only submariner, ETC(SS) has not found time to mention that subs collide with xxx at a rate ~2 per year. Driving with eyes closed is ill advised. One could make a case for 'military necessity'. But cargo shipping? OMFG.
     
    #129 tochatihu, Sep 15, 2016
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was thinking of bulk products: ore; grains, and; fossil fuels. It would not be practical for container shipping. Speed is not problem except for the crew. Still, underwater a submarine is just flying in a denser media. Of course I've assume nuclear power is 'free.' <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
    #130 bwilson4web, Sep 15, 2016
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Been there !!
    Only thing is they spell it and pronounce it a little different

    Bah hahbah
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    Seasonally they serve "McLobster" sandwiches at their McDonalds .... yum.
    So good
    [​IMG]
    .
     
    #131 hill, Sep 15, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #132 tochatihu, Sep 16, 2016
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    [​IMG]
     
    #133 bwilson4web, Sep 16, 2016
  14. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Another cool (er...less cool) chart:
    [​IMG]
     
    #134 iplug, Sep 20, 2016
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The last report, the NorthAbout is in the middle of the Atlantic crossing just leaving the center of a low pressure system on diesel power. As they approach Ireland, the winds will pickup to gale force from the South, 90 degrees to their course. For a sailing ship, great fun but with these wind speeds, a rough ride.

    The cruise ship arrived safe after passing through the Northwest passage and the Chinese cargo ship is already back along the Pacific coast. Seeing the NorthAbout back home, probably in the next 3-4 days, will complete at least three ships passing through the Arctic Sea in 2016.

    The Northwest passage appears to be freezing up but the Northeast passage along the Russian coast still appears mostly ice free. It usually closes up the middle of this month.

    Later,
    Bob Wilson
     
    #135 bwilson4web, Oct 7, 2016
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    For good friend, @mojo, it is now 3 for 3 for Arctic transits in 2016 with the Northabout arrival in an Irish port:
    [​IMG]

    Perhaps your climate denial sources might not be accurate? Those who lie for you will also lie to you.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #136 bwilson4web, Oct 13, 2016
  17. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    #137 mojo, Oct 16, 2016
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source:
    Bristol boat Northabout completes historic first North West Passage crossing of melting Arctic | Bristol Post

    A Bristol boat has become the first to complete both the North East and North West Passages around the Arctic Ocean in just one summer – showing just how quickly the Arctic ice cap is melting.

    The boat Northabout, which has a crew largely made up of sailors from Bristol – and in particular from Thornbury Sailing Club - returned to Bristol on Thursday with a dire warning about climate change.    ​

    Bob Wilson
     
    #138 bwilson4web, Oct 20, 2016
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #139 tochatihu, Oct 23, 2016
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Remember Captain Cook? After doing OK in Canada/French war, he started sailing BIG. Actually did some worthwhile science out there. His No Go into the Arctic passage provided some very detailed observations that have been folded into an historical analysis of Arctic Ice

    A New Look At Captain Cook Shows Just How Much The Arctic Has Melted | Popular Science

    Leads one to publisher Taylor & Francis, who put more effort into their paywall than many :) I nominate our Captain Bob to visit local library for the pdf. Or to email Harry Stern for direct delivery. I have great confidence that it will be successful. Just tell Dr. Stern of your fascination with new Arctic shipping etc. Toss a bone, get a pdf. So easy.
     
    #140 tochatihu, Nov 5, 2016
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