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I've read a ton on him through the years. Never knew that was true.

 

Here's a sample of Musk's feelings towards the Prius:

According to Musk, "A Prius is not a true hybrid, really. The current Prius is like, 2 percent electric. It's a gasoline car with slightly better mileage."​

Elon Musk Says Prius Not a True Hybrid: Calls it 2% Electric

 

That part is extremely unfair towards the mainstream solution to reduce fuel consumption. By 2009 Musk have been focused on something else and did not make the homework in adressing Prius capabilities, which is wrong and I never heard of him reavaluating the comments...

 

here's a stab at debt prospective, since Amazon's being in the red for some time - prior to going in the black - really doesn't seem to relate well here compared to tesla;
During early bankruptcy proceedings - GM 'claimed' nearly 2Billion debt - just for "future-liabilities" (defective products, asbestos, workman's comp, & other litigation). But even unions other than UAW were owed over 3Billion in health care - never mind the 100's of millions for retiree life ins.
My favorite GM debt though (bisco-beware it's another pet peeve) by far - was over a dozen of their 200+ acre manufacturing sites that were used to dump toxic sludge /chemicals over the decades (especially the 60's/70's) and those costs - GM effectively jettisoned over a half-decade ago. Those debts - were estimated to be around 1.2 billion, yet those cleanup costs (spread over the 100 properties GM unloaded) are still continuing to grow.
Many of those areas were already facing blight conditions, with over 10% unemployment. Include the cost of lost collateral jobs - unemplitment Forget it - the amount just for the above is already north of 4billion. GM collateral damage? Huge. New GM? smelling like a rose.
On the other hand, let's say Tesla doesn't go the way of Amazon - by turning huge profits. Instead let's say it goes the way of GM. The bright side is we won't be paying dearly for the next half century's toxic cleanup. Instead, all the good assets will be there - & just like at GM, tesla would be smelling like a rose. It'll still be eco friendly tesla. So if you need to make a tesla debt 'spread sheet' & keep a tally. Go for it, with many blessings. IMO, though you're hyper focused on a snowflake when there's an iceberg afoot ..... that 17trillion+ our nation carries. Just a little more prospective.

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I don't see many Tesla haters. I appreciate what Tesla is doing for the industry. I would try a Tesla if i could afford one. I only pointed out an issue they're having and they have a very deceptive way of addressing it. A non-disclosure agreement before they'll do a warranty repair? Sounds bad to me. But I don't know the whole story. I also don't know how they are going to deliver all those 3s when they have been late on prior lower volume production.

 

probably should be in context. Here is the source.
Elon Musk: Gas should cost $10 per gallon - CNET

Definitely poo pooed the prius as not being electric enough while he was trying to raise money for tesla. I wouldn't call that a hater though. People were saying why build an electric car, when hybrids are good enough.

I think his attitude has become more pro EV. Back then there were still thoughts of phev at tesla, now its all electric.

Bottom line, is the bottom of the tesla product line will try to compete with the bmw 3, lexus is, audi 4, and mercedes c class. I don't think he really has thought much about the prius since, as people have stopped asking him questions about it as the model S has become such a large sucess. The questions are about financials and the model 3.

 

Looks like the same thing. Couldn't find an embedded transcript there, just a few more quotes strung together.

Hater is used by many loosely. Just is more consistent with the argument that he is still business first.

That said, he is still a major positive driving force.

 

ouch, those comments are so 'lutz-like'! still, i don't hunk that is the reason a few people here are not enamored. they are 7 years old after all.

 

It seems to me like a lot of the haters are west coasters. I wonder if some of it is culture/social pressures that have them a bit riled. Maybe there is an elitist feel to Tesla drivers. Whereas Prius used to be the cool thing to drive on the west coast it is maybe now seen as the little annoying brother of the eco world. Total speculation on my part, I am probably way off.

 

This thread is not referundum on Tesla, it is a referundum on the blogger's article in the OP.
Tesla is doing a good job as an American start-up making an upscale vehilce that's making a good dent in the Jaguar and BMW sales.

 

2015 sales, BMW had number one spot in high end market sales, Lexus was 2nd and Mercedes was 3rd.......

 

I'm not a Tesla hater. I'm a realist. As others have put it, Tesla's a company built on hype (e.g. Supercharger, insane mode, ludicrous mode, "autopilot", snake to plug in/unplug car, "falcon wing" doors, "$35K" Model 3, long lines at showrooms for Model 3 reservations, etc.) and goofy "low monthly payments" based upon a huge down payment as "cost savings". Sure, they have EV w/unmatched range, performance and an awesome DC FC network w/along brand prestige. But, the long-term reliability of their vehicles is very questionable, as are their financials.

Someone else at TSLA corporate outlook - Page 22 - My Nissan Leaf Forum made me aware of Musk's delusions: Elon Musk: Tesla is not really a ‘money-losing business’ - MarketWatch.

 

Tesla, as you know, doesn't have a wide range of models to sell. In 2015 the Model S was pretty much the only model sold (there were a few Model X SUVs sold in the 4th quarter, but not many). So, it is a little misleading to compare total BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes sales that include a number of different models from each company to Tesla's single product offering.

I posted some sales figures comparing 2015 sales of large "luxury" vehicles in another thread and I apologize for repeating myself, but the Tesla Model S outsold any single large vehicle model that any other manufacturer sold in 2015. A link to the sales numbers:
Tesla Model S Outsells Mercedes, BMW, Audi, And Porsche In US - Gas 2

A summary chart from that article:


Tesla competes, in cost at least, with the BMW 6 and 7-series, not with the much higher volume 3-series and when one compares sales of similar sized and priced vehicles, Tesla outsold the competition in 2015.

 

Musk's goal is move the world to a transportation system that can be "fueled" with a sustainable source of energy. Any car propelled by burning fossil fuels, no matter how efficient they are, fails the sustainable source of energy requirement. Every mile that a Prius drives uses gas as the source of energy (excluding the plug in Prius). I would argue that in the minds of people who are trying to encourage the development of sustainable transport, the Prius is, more or less, the best one can achieve (highest mileage) example of a class of vehicles that fails the sustainable energy requirement.

 

We know Musk isn't shooting for perfect, he is shooting for great. ;-) The prius idea, hybrids being more efficient will never really hurt OPEC, or if need be, greatly decrease fossil burn.

Unfortunately these goals take a long time. Prius is a stepping stone to PHEVs that may greatly help. Tesla is hitting it on the other end. I don't think he has ever criticized hybrids except when asked about them stopping tesla's business plan, and clearly Lexus/BMW/Mercedes/GM after spending a lot more money than tesla ever had on luxury performance hybrids have not done so well in terms of volume sales or gas reduction. Tesla is in rarified air and won't ever sell a car as inexpensive as a base prius let alone an aqua(prius c). In those classes really we need huge battery cost breaktrhoughs and charging infrastructure that will take many decades. The THS as put in the pinacle of the prius really is no competitor to the telsa long range bev, and the tesla is too expensive to compete with the lower end THS cars. Now a tesla model 3 may steal sales from camry/avalon/Lexus ESh hybrids, the model Y may eat sales of the Rav4/Lexus NXh hybrids but they will be too up market to take prius/prius c sales in the US, and with Japanese trade barriers won't compete well in Japan.

There is some level of luxury in driving on wind or solar, or even in some places natural gas or coal over more scarce oil. People will pay more when asked. For some this is about sustainability, for others climate change, for others national security. If the federal government ever got off their buts and improved infrastructure and used an oil tax to pay for it instead of deficit spending as both presidential candidates now favor, economics may quickly turn to favor plug-ins. That is at least 8 years away, but ....

insurance and parking make phevs a better choice than bev + gasoline car (hybrid or otherwise) for a single person (couples that switch may be better off with the swap). With the new bigger battery of the 2017 i3-rex, range improves as they can stop crippling the gas tank as much to bow to Mary Nichols carb rules.
+1

 

When Tesla becomes sustainably profitable, the story will likely continue to resemble Apple a great deal more than Amazon. This is a story of initially appealing to the high-end premium market then broadening the market base, building brand loyalty and charming the rest of the masses.

This is opposed to the Amazon approach of entering most of the spectrum of online marketing from the get-go and building the business in every corner. The lion share of this market was captured relatively early on in that case.

 

Good call on the Apple/Tesla comparisons. Also, Steve Jobs and Elon Musk have quite a few similarities (although some of their shared characteristics aren't positive ones).

 

That's a phrase I've used often in support of solutions that demonstrate progress toward some "ultimate goal". I enjoyed driving the Prius that I owned and I was an enthusiastic supporter of the technology that demonstrated that really clever engineering solutions could produce a vehicle that delivered spectacular mpg numbers. In a very real way, driving the Prius and having the opportunity to experience at least a little of what "driving electric" means was an epiphany. So, I would say that the Prius is "good" and it was a particularly clever solution 20 years ago (when it was just about to be released), but is it "good enough" today?

If one embraces the notion that we must, ultimately, stop burning fossil fuels to power our transportation needs, then the Prius (as a vehicle that derives all of its energy from fossil fuels) can't be a member of the class that solves the problem. If one doesn't embrace that notion, then I guess it doesn't much matter what one drives .

I can appreciate the fact that many (most or nearly all) people factor cost into the decision of what vehicle to drive, but sometimes one makes choices that aren't "just about the money". I can also appreciate that there are still many problems that make using electrons rather than gasoline for personal transportation difficult and that is particularly true in "fly-over" states (Kentucky isn't much different than Alabama), but for me, I'm "all in" on electric vehicles and renewable sources of energy, even if it doesn't "pencil out" compared to other transportation modes or sources of energy. Of course, your mileage (or kWh/mile) may vary and I'm not trying to tell you what you need to do for your family.

Now, it's up to the car companies to produce new solutions that get us further down the road toward the goal of sustainable transportation (solutions that are a little more "good" on the way to "perfect"). I thought Toyota would be a leader in this progression, given its leadership with hybrids, but so far, not so much.