Featured Is Toyota Prius hybrid simply passe now that plug-in cars are here?

Sales Dashboard - ZEV Facts

No worries . . .
What this chart shows to sone degree is that all of the gloom-&-doom over seasonally low gas prices hasn't halted the steady upward sales trend of environmentally friendly vehicles. In fact what can be presumed by that chart is that once fossil fuel prices head for the sky again - those who find high resale cost to be the most important purchasing factor - efficient vehicles will start reselling for more of a premium then. Hey, buy now .... avoid the rush !

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It is true PHEVs still have hurdles to overcome, as do BEVs.
What you failed to mention is that PHEVs and BEVs have a number of advantages which will help them gain acceptance.

The observation that in some areas gas is cheaper than electricity is true, although it is still a minority of places.
The price premium (when it exists) is not solely for the fuel difference. The added convenience for some, added performance and drive quality convince many to take on any extra price premium that exists.

Performance in PHEVs is superior vs the HEVs. Space may indeed be compromised though. Of coarse, hauling space in a HEV is compromised compared to a pickup truck

Hassle with a cord? Really? I would much rather hassle with a cord than a gas pump. However, I can't speak for everyone. I am willing to guess that there are more people that would consider a cord less of a hassle than a pump.

Apartment dwellers do have additional hurdles. However, you can't claim none of them will be buying PHEVs. I know a few personally that already have. I also know of a number of apartments and condos that offer charging stations. True, not a large percentage, but a growing one.

 

Then there's that other statistic - that plugin acceptance is growing faster than hybrid acceptance did, decades ago. Many of us have been around and remember how Hummer holders and other land barge owners scoffed at how stupid hybrids were. Yet here we are with plugin markets growing faster ...
It didn't stop naysayers some 17 years or so ago, so it won't stop the naysayers this time around either. So hey ~ let the hand-wringing continue !

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love the map. california or bust!

 

And, of course, Hummer is now long gone. Long live Prius!

 

1. In some US markets it's actually cheaper to fuel up with gas than plug-in. In most other US markets gas prices are so low relative to electric that paying off the stiff price premium for the extra battery capacity takes too many years to justify the PHEV over an HEV.​

There will always be market variations that can favor one style of vehicle over another. For example, many European countries made diesel artificially cheaper than gasoline. In ethanol supplying states, E85 is reasonably priced. Then there are seasonal differences and planned and unplanned supply and demand effects. Finally remember not all PHEVs are identical.

Capital to buy a car has (or can have) a cost. But sometimes money can pay for cost avoidance. Faced with inevitable retirement, going to a fixed income, reducing operating costs has become very important. One of the biggest frauds is to claim 'stock investment income' will pay for a gas guzzler. That fraud was made into a movie, "The Producers."

2. Space and performance are compromised in the PHEV vs the HEV because of the size and weight of the extra batteries.​

There are poorly designed PHEVs and HEVs and some that have been brilliantly designed. As a general rule of thumb, the ones that try to run a common body style to a gas or diesel version car are going to suffer the greatest inefficiencies. But funnily enough, the purpose built ones can be surprisingly efficient and spacious.

3. People don't want to hassle with cords. ​

Not everyone has the option of a socket. It really helps to have 240VAC @30A+ that really solves the problem. When we got our first PHEV, I was able to use a 120VAC @12A circuit to bring up the charge during 'sleep time'. Then I would visit free, 240VAC @30A+ to top it off.

Now in benchmarking our PHEV, I had to run the range extended engine to significantly bring the gasoline level down. I did this to determine the fastest, sustainable highway speed versus unsustainable speeds. So I got to visit gas stations again ... I would rather be home.

4. Apartment dwellers and others with no garage, or no electricity to a detached garage, won't be buying PHEVs. These folks make up a large part of the automotive resale segment, however. Depreciation of PHEVs vs HEVs will be brutal therefore, making it even more unlikely that the PHEV will ever pay for itself vs an HEV.​

When I was younger, my wife and I lived in apartments and rentals. I rode a motorcycle and my wife drove a 400 ci, Plymouth Fury station wagon. But I also used bicycle and public transportation. We were not 'new car' buyers by any stretch but Dad gave me a brand new, 1981 Chevette. But time moves on.

It turns out there are generous lease options that pay off the new car depreciation. They make testing these cars very affordable ... a long rental. Then they come off lease and become quite affordable.

So the end of May, I bought a used 2014 PHEV with 6,440 miles and 2 years, 9 months and 43,560 miles of warranty remaining. I paid a similar price that was offered for a new 2016 Prius Level 3 with similar TSS-P.

In two months, I've put 3,500 miles which included 463 miles on the range extended engine, +40 MPG. The last +300 miles I ran 4.3 miles/kWh or 4.3 miles for 10 cents at my highest utility rate. But I also got another 100 miles from free chargers at a local shopping center and Whole Foods. For brunch at Whole Foods, I got $0.35 free electricity, over 12 miles.

Bob Wilson

 

bob, do you consider the i-3 a phev?

 

How is it different from a phev?

• It has a J1772 plug and accepts 240VAC @32A
  • Averaging 4.3 mi/kWh
  • ~72 miles range
• It has a gas engine that can sustain 65 mph
  • Averaging 40 MPG using 89 octane
  • ~80 miles range

Bob Wilson

 

i have no idea, that's why i asked. i thought it was a rex, where the engine charged the battery.

 

In other words, the engine is not physically connected to the wheels?

However, that just means the i3 REx is a "series hybrid" instead of a "parallel hybrid" or Prius-like "series/parallel hybrid".

 

thanks, i have trouble keeping it all straight.

 

in terms of BMW i3,
It's definitely a series hybrid, not like accord hybrid, which has an engine direct drive mode.
and someway, somehow, the i3 with much lighter body, smaller engine power and smaller wheel is much less efficient than accord hybrid,
frankly speaking, I always believe non of those European car company has similar engine technology like honda and toyota in terms of engine efficiency, let alone the electrical system technology.

 

IIRC, the gen II volt has stepped it up a bit with their ice efficiency too, as well as being able to run direct drive.
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REx is like EREV, a subset of the broader PHEV definition.

I think BMW's use of REx in Europe is really just the same as EREV for practical purposes. The major difference is that the ICE can provide 100% of the performance for the car. In other words, it can go full speed in hybrid mode as long as it has gas. A REx gives that up on the hybrid side for a bigger battery, and longer grid range.

In the US, because of the horse trading between CARB and BMW, a REx is even more limited in hybrid mode performance. Unless you get the hack to defeat the cobble.

 

Ordinary consumers couldn't care less about labels or definitions. It's only the enthusiasts.

Results vary so dramatically based upon driving conditions & circumstances, what difference does it matter?

The results speak for themselves.

 

no difference, bob just caught me off guard.

 

Two types of PHEVs - ever and blended. The i3 and volt are the ever type, which means full performance without gasoline. Most phevs are blended. Often owners of longer range phevs can keep the engine off by lower acceleration, so range is a bigger consideration than type, and the i3-rex charge depletion range of 71 miles is the longest of any PHEV.

As an phev, without a hack, the i3 has been restricted with a strange regulatory behavior, that of BEVx as special type of EVER that must have at least as far charge depletion range with no liquid fuel burned, as charge sustained range. There is a hack that allows full use of the gas tank, and allows the driver to use charge sustain before the battery is drained.

The serial nature of the hybrid mode makes the i3-rex more mechanically simple and less expensive than the parrellel/serial hybids. This also slightly hurts fuel economy. The carbon fiber adds greatly to the cost and increases fuel economy. YMMV.

So as long as you apply the hack to get around CARBs crippling of the car, the i3-rex really is pretty much a really good phev.

 

No one uses that vague "full performance" criteria anymore. It was originally weak. Then when Energi delivered similar behavior, it became a stretch. Now that Prime will deliver a to-the-floor EV acceleration, it's rather pointless.

As always, it boils down to results. In terms of efficiency, either could deliver similar results. In terms of sales, same potential. Reality is the outcome we'll see play out. On paper numbers don't always march real-world numbers.

 

This led to some interesting insights.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson