Featured Slightly Toyota funded coalition calls for weaker CAFE

That's too easy ... but I know you REALLY don't want me to go there now . . . . do you -

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We've been there. Discussions have been had. Many are still not convinced.

 

The Corporate Average Fuel Economy #'s tell it like it is . . . .
and them's the numbers - read'em & weep
Corporate Average Fuel Economy: How Automakers Rank - Cars.com
Domestic Passenger Cars
Rank Make CAFE Rating
1. Tesla 281.9
2. Nissan 40.6
3. Honda 39.6
4. Toyota 39.1
5. Ford 36.8

Them's the numbers . . . . . and it's notable that no other company / domestic or foreign is even anywhere within 5 times of the numero uno's CAFE rating. Ya just can't make this stuff up
.... so ... I guess Bisco is going to be taking a serious, "... ooh at their model line up ...."

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Excellent! Let's look at the Alliance for Automobile Manufacturers vs CAFE in December 2014:

	AAMf g	CAFE
1	Jaguar Land Rover	27.0
2	Volvo Car USA	30.5
3	FCA US LLC	31.1
4	General Motors Company	34.4
5	BMW Group	35.2
6	Ford Motor Company	36.6
7	Volkswagen Group of America	37.7
8	Mitsubishi Motors	39.8
9	Mazda	42.3
10	Toyota	42.9
11	Mercedes-Benz USA	?
12	Porsche Cars North America	?

Source: http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/cafe/Performance-summary-report-12152014-v2.pdf

The 'General Motors Company' 34.4 MPG includes the Volt. In contrast, 'Toyota' 42.9 MPG. Sad to say, time to review my 'ignore user' list. <sigh>

Bob Wilson

 

done. don't see anything better than my pip for 30k in my driving situation. any suggestions?

 

maybe one of them fine honda or nissan hybirds.

 

Don't forget the Imported Passenger Car table further down on that link. The world'd leading hybrid and it's plug-in cousin, for example, are exclusively imported whereas large vehicles are more likely to be made in the good old U.S.A.

It's great not to have any legacy internal combustion business, but that still doesn't answer Bisco's query.

 

In system engineering, the mission is followed by a requirements definition. So what works for you would be misery for someone else. Chris Hogan made a brilliant post many years ago:

(good_stuff_1 * good_stuff_2 * ...) / (bad_stuff_1 * bad_stuff_2 * ...)

Example: (volume * miles ) / (gallons)​

Due to a happy set of accidents, I've added plug-in technology to our cars. But it is enough to apply the Hogan to the 2014 model year cars:

	2014 model	volume	MPG/MPGe City	MPG Hwy	Hogan City	Hogan Hwy
1	Prius Plug-In	116 ft{3}	95	50	11020	5800
2	BMW i3-REx	99 ft{3}	117	39	11583	3861
3	Volt	108 ft{3}	98	37	10584	3996
4	Gen-3 Prius	116 ft{3}	51	48	5916	5568

If one had to go with a single car and still had a work commute:

1. 2014 Prius Plug-in - the best combination due to largest interior shared with Gen-3 Prius; 3d best City MPGe; 1st highway MPG.
   
2. 2014 BMW i3-REx - comes in second due to 3d largest interior; 1st City MPGe; 4th highway MPG.
3. 2014 Volt - comes in third due to 2nd largest interior; 2nd best City MPGe; 3d highway MPG.
4. 2014 Gen-3 - comes in fourth due to largest interior shared with Prius Plug-in; 4th City MPG; 2nd highway MPG.

Now there are other considerations such as seats, electric range, fuel range, fuel type, spare tire, 'scamper' handling, access, and towing power. But these tend to be specific to individual circumstance. Weighting of these must be done against what the buyer needs (or wants.)

So I think @bisco, @john1701a and @Danny certainly have an excellent Prius Plug-in that matches what little we know of their circumstance. In a similar fashion, the BMW i3-REx solved a commuter problem for @bwilson4web since my one-way, work commute, 10 miles, does not have a charger at work (and I've asked.)

Bob Wilson

 

Interesting formula, however, I don't think it is a useful tool.
As some of the other qualities you identified, "volume" is also an individually specific item.
In addition, based on sheer size, it overwhelms smaller, yet more significant, differences in fuel efficiency.

For example, I suspect a large semi trailer would score higher than a Prius on the highway, yet I certainly wouldn't consider it better for the vast majority of cases.

If the formula were refined to place a priority on each attribute, that may give better results and be more useful to an individual?

 

you'll never convince anti toyota people that they do anything right. it's either gm, tesla or some other company is perfect, without flaw or defect.

 

Porsche is likely combined into VW.

None are perfect. It's why I buy a car, not a company. If it had been a Mitsubishi or Fiat Prius, I would have bought that.

 

exactly.

 

It is a 'rule of thumb', a quick hack. A proper requirements analysis can take a lot more time and requires each requirement and their weighting to the mission get documented. For example, the rear-wheel, 168 hp, drive has a high ranking in our family. Then there are the mandatory versus optional requirements such as driver assitance safety features (aka., TSS-P) versus a moon roof.

Yes, a simple formula can lead to unexpected results. As you've pointed out, the semitrailer truck solution where the volume, payload, increases faster than the surface area, the structure.

Bob Wilson

 

Labeling people as anti Toyota, or as holding the position as any company being "perfect, without flaw" does a disservice to anything you state.

I know of very few people, if any, that are "anti Toyota" and I know of no one that holds that any company is "without flaw".
John might be the closest to hold that view regarding Toyota

 

for some (including me) - all the numbers are just for fun anyway - because YMMV. Here, we see no one talks Honda plugin. A great ride, decent cargo and epa #'s ... but limited production. Then there's all kinds of safety stats that become important to many. Again ... best not to go there ... but yea, i thought were being friendly ... not trying to simply 'get a reaction'.
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of course, the title says, 'toyota funded coalition' instead of gm, because this is primarily a toyota chatroom, not because there is any anti toyota bias. forgive me for my misperception.

 

You're right - and by mearly adding 1 word in front; "Partially" toyota funded - perhaps no one could have gotten their shorts all bunched up. Stupid of me - i missed the malignant intent. Perhaps if I follow everyone's threads and strive to read in more nuances I'll do better. I personally have missappropriately titled stuff .... but it was for the motive of drawing more audience - when it definitely includes Toyota. But when topics include other manufacturers & it includes Toyota too - it's more likely (like clickbait) to bring the audience. But reading here - how other motives can get heaped on (like trolling or whatever) whether intended or not - i guess (personally) i better watch it.
EDIT
ON the other hand - thinking back decades ago - here on PC - when GM was the primary driver on anti ev sentiment, many here were reluctant to add that Toyota was "far from innocent" of the same behavior as they blogged away about GM ... yes some would - if they didn't mind being a kind of pariah. But like you kind of hinted at earlier, corporate responsibility in the Auto industry is often an afterthought - & having green as the primary driver is pretty much an aberration..
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This is PriusChat. On most days it’s where Prius fans and pros come to hang out and discuss Prius and related topics in a respectful manner. Knowledge is shared and even the pros can probably say they learn new things here and build on ideas.

But it is house of Prius. As with religion/cultural issues, our society generally frowns on fans/members of other persuasions entering the temple of another then spreading their own party line. One should tread lightly.

Like the Prius antagonizers, there are hardcore Prius fanboys, but the Prius fanboys should be allocated more slack because this is their temple.

One would hope Prius fans are equally respectful when visiting the forums of other models.

 

OK I guess that data is for USA-made *domestic* cars.
So Prius is not included in that list.
You have to look at *imported* cars to see Prius MPG.