Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

The Gen 4 Prius got the equivalent to a styling bloodbath, inside and out. Ioniq looks normal for a 2017 vehicle in comparison.

 

I think the look is iconic.

 

ironique.

 

I think it is not yet EPA rated. I look forward to seeing the "Test Car Database" metrics.

Bob Wilson

 

Wow! I saw one about a month ago on the freeway. When did they have a car show in Aliso Viejo? It's packed!

 

Looking ordinary isn't always good. Sometimes, the market wants a dated look. Other times, it seeks change.

 

^^^Profound concept John

 

that's the Aliso Viejo Cars & Coffee. I recognize the mall location & especially the Bagels & Brew that I frequent in the background. You can see just about every car under the Sun at that location, almost every Saturday. Starts just after dawn - & most have bugged out by 8 a.m. I've seen everything there from the 918 plugin spider to the Bugatti Veyron to military amphibious vehicles. Most recently the biggest crowd was around a Tesla Model X. That was very bizarre considering how many exotics show up there.
Anywho - with (iirc) seating for FIVE, and a ~30 mile ev range ... it'll be interesting to see what the EPA says that it gets during charge sustain mode.
.

 

Why I no longer care about the Ioniq or the Prius: Why the BMW i3-REx | Page 5 | PriusChat

Sure, I'll eventually run a "Test Car Database" analysis of the Ioniq versus the Prius hatchback but the result won't matter to me. I've found a better solution to the problem and it surpasses the Prius and Ioniq.

Look, I'm not interested in comparing the BMW i3-REx to the PIP or any of the other plug-in hybrids. The carbon-fiber body makes that moot along with the range extender. Granted, the other plug-ins are more than worthy of consideration. But no stamped steel body will ever compete with a carbon fiber body ... sorry, the physics say otherwise. Still, the PIP has some nice highway performance but the BMW i3-REx in battery mode beats them all.

So please understand I applaud the Ioniq and every other 'Prius beater' for the effort. Not so much because of competing models but because they capture more 'gassers and diesels.' Just I know where to find the roll-down coefficients and you should not go there with 'great expectations' of bragging rights ... I will be there.

Bob Wilson

 

bob, the bev snob.

 

When people try to compare a Tesla to a Prius, and claim it's superiority, I tend to bang my head against the wall...of course it's better (even then, I'd argue about range limitations...), it cost over 3 times more! The BMW i3 though, it's styling is hideous (you can at least learn to love the Gen IV styling...), and the extended range option is kind of a joke, I've traveled on stretches of road where gas stations are spread out a lot longer than it's paltry "Extended Range" provides; for a car that is twice the cost of a Prius, the BMW does not exactly beat the Prius in a cost-benefit analysis.

 

Fortunately the BMW marketing was heavy into 'leasing'. Today many end-of-lease i3 are showing up for the same price as a new 2016 Prius. It is a 'crap shoot' but I fell into a sweet deal, 6,440 miles, with just under 3 years of vehicle warranty remaining for $29.9k. Here is another nice one: BMW i3 w Range Extender Certified | eBay over in Grand Prairie, TX.

So far, the car has fully met my expectations. For example, I took a cat nap at noon in the Alabama sun with the A/C on while connected to a free charger. It takes a plug-in to accomplish that task without burning gas.

Bob Wilson

 

bob bought it used, and the price wasn't that much higher than a 2 year old prius with similar specs. To each his own on the needed gasoline range, Bob's priority is efficiency, and the electric effiiciency is incredible, as is the low price for a carbon fiber 2 year old car.

My guess is as phevs get better, hybrids lose market share outside of japan. That's why the prius prime is key to toyota not falling behind.

To each there own. I think a 5 year old honda fit will beat any new prius in cost benefit ;-), bob wanted something more, and I applaud his decission. If the gen 4 prius is right for you its a good decision too.

 

A fully loaded Prime would be an interesting comparison when it comes to the Tesla's and BMW's of the world...though I tend to discount the "creature comforts" of luxury autos, mainly because I've never owned anything approaching luxury, I imagine it to flying first class...you'll never want to go back to cars relegated to the unwashed masses.

A used Honda Fit would meet 90% of the population's needs

 

that would be related to cost of gas... and USA only.

Toyota hybrids are selling considerably better YoY in Europe and even Japan due to new models and people getting used to the idea.

 

Well I did call out japan.

Europe? Its my understanding that hybrids take a much smaller market share there than the US, and plug-ins are growing fast. Since 2013 sales of hybrid vehicles outside japan have decreased. Latest figure I see was market share of 1.4% in EU28 for hybids in 2014 (not sure why 2015 figures aren't available). Toyota reported slight growth in hybrids in europe last year, but with a less than 5% market share that doesn't move the needle, and doesn't make up for loss in the US. In 2015 US lost 111 thousand hybrid sales versus 2013. Toyota/Lexus hybrid europe is not making up for the shortfall.I would like to see more hybrid growth in europe, but that seems to be promised every year.

 

Toyota is not a startup - there is nothing being "promised". Toyota sells around 1.3m hybrids per year worldwide. It is not promising the technology, it is just a regular tech for them like anything else. With new Rav4 hybrid and upcoming C-HR hybrid, they will go well over 1.5m in 2017.

Sales of Toyota hybrids in Europe were up 17% in 2015. They are up 38% so far in 2016. Both are huge gains for established technology that sells well.

Overall 200k-300k hybrids for Toyota in Europe is pretty huge. Their goal of 50% hybrids means that they will likely cut diesels from most vehicles in the future in Europe. C-HR will not have a diesel version at all.

2016 rise in sales is led by Rav4 Hybrid thats sold out for next 4-5 months.

Toyota Motor Europe (TME) sold 874,000 vehicles in 2015 with record 209,000 hybrid sales



Toyota Europe News



+38% hybrid sales: Toyota Motor Europe sales in the first quarter of 2016 are greener than ever
+38% hybrid sales: Toyota Motor Europe sales in the first quarter of 2016 are greener than ever

 

it probably doesn't hurt that vdub is choking on their own exhaust.

 

just like with other recalls, it did not hurt VW sales (they are up). Toyota owns 3x smaller pie in Europe than in USA, so they would not be the ones to benefit in any case.

Sales go up with new models like Prius and Rav4. They are also always doing something with Auris and Yaris, every year they make some new special editions and updates so people are buying them more, even if they are old models (4 and 5 years now).

Question is if Toyota will introduce several variations of hybrid platform for same vehicle? Like new Yaris due next year - it will likely not have a diesel anymore, but will it have 2 hybrids to compensate? They might simply add 1.2t instead of 1.8l hybrid though, to the current engine lineup.