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Why the BMW i3-REx

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by bwilson4web, May 15, 2016.

  1. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    I haven't read all your posts yet, but Blink (Blink) sucks. Their equipment is often not working and not repaired promptly. Blink is the leftover carcass of Ecotality that went bankrupt. CCGI bought them out but they're not doing well financially either: How is Car Charging Group / Blink doing in your area? - Page 4 - My Nissan Leaf Forum.

    You MUST use PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge your car! to check out charging sites ahead of time, otherwise you'll waste a bunch of time.

    You should find out what are the major charging providers in your area and sign up for accounts and probably an RFID card for them. For me, it's Blink, NRG evgo and Chargepoint. There's also Semaconnect (very expensive too) and a few others. I have an account and cards for Blink (never used it) and Chargepoint (use every weekday since my employer has their stations and we get free charging at work).

    For DC FCing, since BMW decided to adopt CCS, J1772 CCS aka Frankenplug aka SAE Combo, there aren't that many of those. In the US, there are 3 incompatible DC FC standards: CHAdeMO, Tesla Supercharger and SAE Combo. See pics of plugs at Chevy Spark EV Forum • View topic - DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger, etc. (Tesla USA/Canada plug, CHAdeMO and Combo1). In terms of charging stalls in the US, in descending order: Tesla Supercharger, CHAdeMO and SAE Combo (distant 3rd).

    And, NO, there's currently no adapter to allow enable ANY vehicle to DC fast charge on on Tesla Superchargers. There's also no adapter to enable SAE Combo vehicles to charge on
    CHAdeMO Association DC FCs.

    BTW, back to Blink, AFAIK, their DC fast chargers are CHAdeMO ONLY, so those are incompatible w/your i3. The only BMW i3's that ship w/CHAdeMO inlet are the ones for the Japanese market. So, if you use Blink, it'll be on their level 2 (208 to 240 volt) EVSEs, NOT DC FCs.

    Fortunately, for level 1 and 2, everyone's standardized on J1772(-2009). Tesla Model S and X (probably) come with a free J1772 adapter to enable their vehicles to charge on J1772 EVSEs.
     
    #21 cwerdna, May 28, 2016
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Fortunately, you have the "patch" (referred to by BMW folks as "coding" :rolleyes:). Without the ability to engage the REx earlier than when the battery's nearly dead, the experiences going up a hill on the REx be scary.

    Some are below. You'll need to be a member of the i3 FB group to see the FB links. Some have gotten it down to a point where the car would go only 9 mph.
    Code:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/permalink/764362933637570/?comment_id=766242970116233&offset=0&total_comments=5
    Code:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/permalink/651964284877436/ 
    BMW i3 Forum • View topic - US i3 Rex dangerous when climbing hills
    Code:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/permalink/1050421328365061/?comment_id=1050833724990488&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R2%22%7D
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Thanks for the heads up. I just arrived home with the BMW i3-REx:
    • Left 5:53 PM, Arrived: 5:10 AM
    • 9:31 - driving duration
    • 462 miles - distance
    • 4.6 mi/kWh
    • 49.8 mph - speed
    • Starting SOC: 100%, Ending 72%
    • Fuelings
      • $5.10 - 1.75 gal
      • $4.35 - 1.50 gal
      • $3.29 - 1.45 gal
      • $3.65 - 1.48 gal
      • $3.89 - 1.53 gal
      • $3.70 - 1.55 gal
      • $3.88 - 1.58 gal
      • 10.84 gal - 462 miles -> 42.6 MPG
    • @65 mph - 1.48 gal - 60 miles -> 40.5 MPG
    • @55 mph - 1.584 gal - 70.3 miles -> 44.5 MPG
    • dynamic cruise control tripped out three times, two driving into sunset and one at ~10 PM
    • "Check Engine" light self-cleared within 10 miles
    • Put car on free, public charger while eating supper, added ~7% SOC
    • Commercial charger could not be made to work ... will check credit card for charges anyway
    Still learning the car and systems. So far, no surprises. Taking a nap before trying Level 1 charging at home. Eventually, electrican for better home charger. Also test the Whole Foods and other chargers.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #23 bwilson4web, May 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congrats bob, all the best! eat more slowly, chew your food.(y)
     
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  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Re: the DRCC unexpected disengaging, yes, there used to be a TON of chatter on the BMW i3 FB group about that, esp. when going into the sun. I don't know if the behavior has changed but from The Electric BMW i3: BMW i3 Overactive-Active Cruise Control and the chatter afterward, it sounded like its behavior was very dangerous since on the i3, when you lift off the accelerator, VERY strong regen (braking) kicks in. So, you could get rear-ended or cause collisions behind you.

    The second to last paragraph of the above describes a good solution.

    As for check engine light... have fun w/that. There are numerous possible causes, and some of them are spurious. You should get BMW i3 Software Update 15-11-502 Fixes Flaws, Adds Features applied, if it hasn't had it already.
     
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  6. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Back to the 3 standards, I haven't seen an update from GRA at MNL lately as to count, but from Tesla Supercharger Network - Page 117 - My Nissan Leaf Forum, as of 1/1/2016, there were 1672 Supercharger stalls at 248 locations across 44 states. Of course, this does nobody any good other than those who drive a Model S w/Supercharger access enabled or a Model X.

    Previously, they'd leapfrogged CHAdeMO and probably are still ahead.
    CHAdeMO Association
    says there are 1686 CHAdeMO DC FCs in the US. This does the i3 no good as well, since only Japanese market i3's are compatible with it + other CHAdeMO cars (available on vehicles like these: Leaf, Kia Soul EV, i-Miev and Teslas with Tesla — CHAdeMO Adapter).

    SAE Combo is way behind, but I don't have a count. Unfortunately, some of the Frankenplug players aren't very serious like GM Won't Fund CCS Fast-Charging Sites For 2017 Chevy Bolt EV.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Reading the owners manual and just tested the automatic, parallel parking (car perfect, driver thought it was done ... car corrected driver.) Also mastering key-fob.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Be careful. There have been many reports that it's buggy. I've seen reports of it hitting curbs and possibly causing curb rash damage to wheels.

    As for public charging adding 7% while eating, you should make sure your charge rate is set to max via the car's UI and see if you can plug into an EVSE where you can see how many kW the car's pulling. If it's a 30 amp EVSE (most are) and most commercial power is 208 volts, not 240, I'd expect to see somewhere north of 6 kW rate. (For others here since I'm sure Bob knows: 208 volts * 30 amps = 6,240 watts = 6.24 kW).

    If you have a blown KLE, your charge rate will be in the 3.x kW range. Chargepoint public EVSEs will tell you in their app or their web UI. But, if you're on ChargePoint Introduces CT4000-Series Charger with Unique Power Sharing Option - Inside EVs and there's another car charging AND the site only has a single 40 amp feed instead of 2 40 amp feeds (1 for each handle), the charging rate will be halved until 1 car finishes. (We had CT-4000s with power sharing at my work until they added a second feed.)

    The reason why I keep mentioning EVSE is because of
    Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations - Page 2 - My Nissan Leaf Forum.

    If you charge on Blink L2 public EVSEs, you may not get full charging rate due to their crap defective REMA handles.
    While Under Threat From OEMs, ECOtality Turns Down The Output On Chargers To Avoid Failures - Inside EVs
    Ecotality Reduced Current on Level 2 Blink Electric Car Chargers | PluginCars.com
    CarCharging Promises To Bring Blink Level 2 Back To 30 Amps - who knows about this promise?

    TonyWilliams at Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - Blink EVSE blows out a pin on the Rav4 connector was probably one of the first ones to discover the faulty handles, the hard way.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You bring up a good point: is it a defective charger, group of chargers, or the car?

    I've had our BMW i3-REx for a little over 24 hours and used these chargers:
    1. EVgo (Green Mountain Power) - charging station did nothing and even failed to read two credit cards. Calling the 1(877)494-3833 support and giving credit card information failed to charge … but there is a $10.67 VISA charge. Apparently they are good about charging credit cards but not the car.
    2. Public EV stations at Hilton - my first, successful charge, no fee while eating supper in Biltmore.
    3. Huntsville Whole Foods - no charge, reported ~4kWh after over an hour
    4. Level 1 charging at home - find the first outlet is not properly grounded. However, the second outlet works fine. Using the middle, 10A, charge rate, for now. Will investigate the dryer outlet. All will be thermally checked to make sure the new load is not causing other issues like setting the house on fire.
    I have the car and know where the BMW dealer is. I'll figure out the 'last mile' problem and drop the car off for a charger checkout.

    At the Whole Foods charger, I just needed a few things, ~10 minutes which is not long enough to get a good charge. Since my wife told me I needed a hair cut, I asked the clerk and she had no idea. So I had a nice walk around the area and found a salon that had an opening. I began to realize a free public charger now defines my 'neighborhood.' Over time, I will learn what services are in walking distance. I'll also investigate using my inline skates to expand the area.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    For level 1 and 2 AC charging over J1772, the charger is on-board the car. Unless you're plugging into an SAE Combo DC Fast Charger (has the 2 extra pins below, see Combo1 pic at Chevy Spark EV Forum • View topic - DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger, etc.), you're using an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment), including that brick w/a J1772 handle on one side and a NEMA 5-15 plug (NEMA connector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) on the other). The 120 volt EVSE that came w/your car BMW calls an OUC ("Occasional" Use Cable, per
    360 Electric - Home Charging - BMW North America
    ). Other automakers use terms like trickle charge cable or cord set.

    EVSEs aren't chargers. They don't alter the supply voltage nor convert AC to DC nor do they have knowledge of what's going on w/the batteries (e.g. state of charge, temp, etc.) EVSEs are mainly just smart safety switches. Protocol at Google Code Archive - Long-term storage for Google Code Project Hosting. and primer at http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingprimer.pdf.

    For DC Fast Charging, the OBC is bypassed and the (expensive) external unit is a charger, supplying DC to the car.

    i3 has a weird setup where they basically have two on-board chargers. One is/is part of the EME. The second one is/is part of the KLE. As I mentioned, blown KLE == L2 charging rate cut in half. You can see what they stand for (in German) at BMW i3 REx One Year Review.

    All the initial i3's for the US market had faulty KLEs and were blowing if you charged at their max rate (on level 2), so as a band-aid turned down the charging rate until a redesigned part was available. Looks like BMW To Finally Replace i3 Onboard Charger To Restore Promised 7.4 kW Charging Rate is from late Dec 2014 (as is BMW Starts Replacing i3 KLE Onboard Charger To Achieve A 7.4 kW Charging Rate).

    From Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard, the first i3's shipped in the US in May 2014.

    I believe there is some UI on the i3 to turn down the charging rate, for whatever reason. You should make sure it's set to max. The car should only draw no more than the EVSE advertises anyway (via the pilot signal).

    As I mentioned, the Chargepoint app and their web site will show you a graph showing the power level when the car's plugged into their EVSEs. See ChargePoint: Find EV Charging - Android Apps on Google Play and ChargePoint: Electric Vehicle Charging On the Go on the App Store.

    Re: evgo, earlier they had a ridiculous and seemingly antiquated billing system. See below. In comparison, w/Chargepoint, you can easily via their web site see all your sessions w/info like start and end time and date, station, kWh dispensed, address of station, fee (if any), etc.

    $450 bill from NRG / eVgo - My Nissan Leaf Forum
    Worst customer services from Nrg and incorrect bill - My Nissan Leaf Forum

    I'm glad I'm not a customer of NRG evgo.

    Unrelated: If the motor mount bolt has hasn't been replaced (I believe there's a campaign), you should get that time. Numerous folks have had theirs break (one guy multiple times), which often results in major damage afterward (covered by warranty, but still).

    new engine mount bolt recall/campaign/TSB ? | The Circuit: The Official BMW i Forum
    BMW i3 Forum • View topic - Engine Mount Recall - SIB 22 04 15, just for 2014? - don't know about the id
    Log into Facebook | Facebook (but you need to be part of the group)
     
    #30 cwerdna, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This was very helpful:
    This article led to:

    About a month into ownership last year, I authored two posts dedicated to my initial likes and dislikes.

    Under "likes" I would add two strangers have admired the car: (1) a gas station attendant Friday afternoon, and (2) a man in a car stopped aside me at a light. Contrast that to what happens when driving a Prius. So I've taken an open attitude to showing off the car. I'm not selling it but letting folks know there is an alternative.

    The "dislikes" are amusing as some I found but others won't surprise me so much:
    • under 100 miles EV - since it was under 100 miles, he bought the REx version only to discover, it is very handy. I bought the car because of the range extender which is 'right sized' for cross-country drives. It exactly matches standard day driving at 75 mph. At 70 mph, perfectly fine without eventually draining the traction battery and I'm happy with cruising at 65 mph, the usual posted speed limit which fully preserves the battery SOC.
    • No SOC - fixed as I drove with a three digit, SOC, 99.9%
    • No Battery Temperature - still a problem but driven like an 11 year Prius owner, not critical for my purposes.
    • Glide - not a problem for me because the cruise control is great! I don't operate or use the accelerator except to get over 20 mph when the cruise control takes over. But then that is how I drive our Prius too.
    • glare - I drove west into the sunset. I never noticed it.
    • no AM radio - heck I'm a podcast guy as AM/FM and satellite have been bought and sold to folks with an 'agenda' and lack of imagination and character. I prefer to choose my content on the Internet.
    • thin tires - really a function of roads. I'm more concerned about the replacement cost. Also there are both 19" and 20" versions and the front and rear tires are different. I will be looking at alternatives and a full-size spare. I don't like one flat trashing the tire and pressure sensor with 'goop.'
    • key fob functions - it is what it is and I don't choose a car because of the fob … heck I'm Ok with a physical key. However, I do like holding the unlock will roll down the windows.
    • regen braking - finally that d*mn creep I've been pissed off at Toyota for is GONE! It does regenerate to a complete stop and is non-linear. I plan to measure it with an accelerometer so I can better predict where the car will stop.
    • locking connector - when I pulled up to the free charger, there was a guy eating ribs at a bench. He mentioned a 'joke' of disconnecting the charging cable. At the time, I did not realize locking the car would lock the connector but when I got back from supper, he was gone and the car still charging. I like the lock even if it means not being 'friends'.
    • Regen stops on fast turns - hummm, good to know. I've not experience it but on my first cross-country drive, I'm trying to reach home, not shake-off a tailgater. But I drive on cruise control so I'm not likely to experience this.
    • software bugs - at work I have to use a Windows laptop management by another government contractor.
    • charging - I had always planned to use a home L1 while investigating options.
    As for the technical details about the car, I found a link to the BMW technical information service. For $250 I can get 30 days access and start downloading the service manuals. So far, sounds like regular integration and test.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #31 bwilson4web, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
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  12. silverone

    silverone Member

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    From a charging standpoint, the Clipper Creek EVSE's are good options with excellent support from what I've seen and experienced. I've purchased and installed 4 so far.

    I'm in a rural area without much public charging buildout, with the exception of Tesla destination (and super) charging. What interests me most right now are the Tesla HPWC to J1772 adapters that would make owning something closer to full EV more palatable. A BEV80 can't currently get me out of my area based on J1772 availability alone.

    With these adapters available, a used Leaf might be an option to add to our stable. Without them, my options are only the Volt and i3 REx to maintain a high EV use percentage.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's nice that some whole foods have chargers, but it's usually a short trip, and i've suspected that people leave their cars there and do other errands.

    last week, there was a gti there with the charging cable stuck under the hood. when they came back, an older women with a bev in the other space gave them a good talking to.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Exactly! My first test drive and take it home:
    • 462 miles (740 km)
      • 710 ft (216m)
      • 2786 ft (849m)
      • 680 ft (207m)
    • trip speed of 50 mph (80kph) (door-to-door)
      • included an hour supper break
      • multiple, 1.5 gallon refills every hour (wife's
    • 42.4 MPG (Plus grade, 89 octane)
    So last night, I parked with ~42% on the battery and range remaining just under 40 miles. So I used the 110VAC wall outlet cable and a 25ft, 15A cable ($40) to plug into the utility room outlet. I lost two hours because I didn't notice the power fault, the ground and neutral problem, of that outlet.

    I re-ran the extension cable into the back, kitchen outlet leaving the door cracked and got a solid 12 hours, 92% SOC and range of 82 miles. Now this reading will soon decay because when charging a battery stops, the battery voltage soon decays to a steady state value, true value. Given the EPA lists the battery range as 72 miles, '90% isn't good enough, it is PERFECT!' (former GE manager Dick Hicks when a software manager tried to report progress,'90%, next week 92%, 93%, 94%, setback 92%').

    Knowing my weekly driving habits, I expect to have no problem with the reduced rate (1 kwHr). One advantage is charging efficiency since the electrical losses house-to-car vary by the square of the current. A faster charge rate is less efficient and tends to induce more heat. For the summer and fall, no problem, giving more time to design a better home charging system.

    Our kitchen is closest to our car parking area and has a 40A circuit breaker protected oven and electric range. So I'll install a junction box with a current detector on the range/oven side that operates a solid-state, relay on the 220VAC lines. However, I'll also wire a 110 VAC plug for Level 1 when cooking. The operational scenario:
    • stove and oven OFF - Level 2 charging available to an installed, external box, and Level 1 outlet
    • stove or oven ON - Level 2 charging turned off but Level 1 continues to work, car set to reduced mode
    • default charging when home - Level 1 at 1kWhr mode. In exceptional cases such as planning more errands around town, turn off the stove and oven and use the Level 2 charger
    So far, I have only one suggested enhancement. When the car is off and the windows are down, the rain sensor should trigger rolling up the windows. Also hitting and holding "Lock" on the key fob should roll up the windows. This way in Alabama if no shade around to park, we can keep the interior dry while letting the solar heat out.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #34 bwilson4web, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I'd suggest investing is a tire plug kit until a spare is found. Plus some cheap pliers and a boxcutter, both are needed for pulling out any nails, and trimming the plug. That will probably fix all the tire damage that the inflater and goo could handle, without wrecking the TPMS sensor.
     
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  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    • I haven' t read the articles but yeah, that was a big complaint (not sure if it's been fixed now) that BMW didn't learn their lesson from the Leaf and for North America decided NOT to include a % SoC display, instead basically saying, "we think our GOM (guess-o-meter, they didn't use these terms) is good enough". This lack was complained about bitterly and we got thru to the Leaf Chief Vehicle Engineer + other Nissan folks in Dec 2011 at a meeting at Google (I was there). It was added on '13+ Leafs.

      '11 and '12 Leafs only had a crappy guess-o-meter that was all over the place and 12 digital fuel bars that weren't granular enough. The led to projects like a "gid meter" by Gary Giddings (not the guy in the picture featured at http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/automobiles/nissan-leafs-true-believers-wont-leave-well-enough-alone.html?_r=0, Google for The Electric Leaf’s True Believers Won’t Leave Well Enough Alone and click thru from there, if you get their paywall). He discovered something on the CAN bus that was ~281 on a full charge and went down as the battery discharged. That was the proxy for % SoC. People still use that number today (even WITH the % SoC display on '13+ Leafs) for more visibility as to what's going on.
      I'd been annoyed as to lack of AM radio. I actually DO use it in my Leaf and Prius sometimes to catch the news and realtime traffic, while driving. The hardware is actually in the i3 (can be enabled by "coding"), however I don't know if it actually works properly w/o massive interference while moving. I've heard conflicting reports.
      is what happens if you use a portable AM radio inside the i3, while driving. :)

    • The tires apparently are quite fragile and people have blown them pretty easily. I'm not counting anything about people getting nails or screws in tires.
    • Some people outside the US (who can have a sunroof) have complained about returning their car to be drenched on the inside due to what is supposedly buttons on the fob being pressed, causing the sunroof and windows (?) to open.
    The first vehicle to ship w/a charging handle lock for L1 and L2 was the 2013 Leaf. From day 1, they had a switch w/3 choices:
    - LOCK (stay attached like a parasite)
    - middle/nothing (don't lock)
    - AUTO (unlock when charging is done).

    BMW should've done that. Instead, they gave the driver no choice and only provided the equivalent of LOCK. Later, in the Nov 2015 update, they decided to unlock when charging is done, giving the driver no choice.

    They should've provided all 3 choices. LOCK can make sense if the user is trying to prevent theft of the L1 EVSE or if they may get ticketed for not being plugged in. (Yes, we have such an ordinance in CA provided there's proper signage.) AUTO or don't lock can make sense for plug sharing.

    It's as if the BMW engineers/product planners were asleep and didn't consider the US use cases. In Europe, apparently, drivers bring their own Type 2 Mennekes cables (they don't use J1772, usually). The level 2 EVSEs (stations) don't have a cable. But, you can detach the cable on the station side... so, of course what they provided in Europe makes sense as it prevents cable theft and doesn't prevent plug sharing.

    Side note: If one wants to be able to quickly tell if an i3 is a REx vs. BEV (pure electric), look for the filler flaps on the passenger side. The BEV only has 1 hole on the rear fender for the charging inlet. REx has that + the gas hole on the front fender, as the gas tank is in the front! Some have called that gas hole flap the "Freedom flap" or "flap of shame".
     
    #36 cwerdna, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  17. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Bob, other than all this, how are you liking the new ride?
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In descending order of desirable:
    • 2014 BMW i3-REx (used)
    • 2003 Toyota Prius (used)
    • 2010 Toyota Prius (new)
    • 1966 VW MicroBus (used) - excellent car for 1972-75, 28 MPG, loved it but always carried spare parts, tool box, and repair manual
    • 1988 Caravan (used) - like 1966 MicroBus but had maintenance issues
    • 1972 Datsun wagon (used) - had to replace cylinder head and found a copper wire in the gasket!
    • 2001 Toyota Echo (new)
    • 1972 Plymouth Fury station wagon, 400 CID (used) - horrible
    • 1981 Chevette (new, gift) - slightly better than the 1931 Model A Ford my dad had for high school
    So let's leave it as this is my order.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
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    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    that's engineering language for 'it's not too bad'.
     
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  20. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
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    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    LOL!

    FWIW, I recall privately trying to point Bob towards used Leafs since they have such crappy resale value. But alas, they're pure BEVs and have no engine... so that doesn't work for everyone.

    The crappy resale value is why I have a used '13 Leaf now after I returned my '13 Leaf that was on 2 year lease.

    In July 2015, I considered the $10,500 + tax and license '13 Leaf SV (middle trim) w/premium package w/only 12K miles at Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-March '16 - Page 7 - My Nissan Leaf Forum. But, I passed on it. I ended up getting a '13 for $9,325 + tax and license w/the same equipment level but almost 24K miles on it which I posted at Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-March '16 - Page 8 - My Nissan Leaf Forum.

    My hardly driven 06 Prius is my "range extender". We have free L2 and L1 charging at my work, although at my current location, L1 charging is a bit of a walk. My commute's only ~12 to 13 miles each way, so it's well within a Leaf's range.

    The i3 is MUCH faster in acceleration than the Leaf and is RWD. It's highly likely it handles better than the FWD Leaf. But... ummm... reliability of the i3 REx is usually errr.... not good. Let's just hope Bob's holds up well and doesn't become a headache and money pit.
     
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