Featured As gas prices have dropped, so have owner's EV/hybrid loyalty

did you pay good money for a used vehicle?

 

Looks like somebody's cleaning up.
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Extreme recycling ... Soylant Green sauce anyone?

Bob Wilson

 

Slightly off topic, I assume all federal tax credits for the regular Prius have long expired.

 

I am under the impression the fool-cell cars may have another Federal Tax Credit that is separate from the earlier hybrid credit: Federal Tax Credits for All-Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles

The dealers know this too and in the past, we have seen prices above MSRP that "eat" the tax credit. Regardless of the mechanics, the effect is 'new car depreciation' becomes a shock to anyone trying to sell a car that once had a Federal Tax Credit. Fortunately, the Prius is no longer subject to these effects. Cheap up-front, the sting is when the car is sold.

Now there may be some state tax credits around but I know Alabama has none. I understand Georgia and a few other states are trying to increase registration taxes on efficient cars.

Bob Wilson

 

maybe it's apropos that your analogy to talk about a bad analogy, is kind of a bad analogy.

A ½ century old (1966), 'properly stored ICE' would similarly be worth much less - because its smog belching filthy exhaust is now illegal in many jurisdictions ... not to mention its less reliable - & horribly less efficient operation would proscribe its use. To make another mediocre analogy, it's why no one is putting a 1920s Sopwith Camel radial engine on a Boeing 747.
Yes, everything that man made from long ago - is not as good as the stuff we have today. The ICE gets better ... just like electrical 'storage containers' get better .... whether it's energy density to weight ratio, or cost, or capacity loss over usage, even long term/age issues. In short - old stuff was good enough for long ago, so it's of little consequence that its modern day 'revived' use is limited. Like bwilson says - perfect is the enemy of good enough.
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I have a cleaner reason than Hill's on why your analogy is bad one.

You are comparing a low mile, properly stored engine sitting on a shelf, to traction batteries in use. Properly stored, it is possible for some Li-ion batteries to last longer than 20 years on a shelf. Improperly store even a new, modern engine, and it might need an overhaul after a year, depending on the climate.

Then at 10 to 15 years old, any non-collectable car is going to be a fraction of it's new price. Most that were actually driven during that time, are going to be seen as a beater by buyers no matter what type of car it is.

My analogy was that older ICE cars that were used were once expected to need major work to keep running around the 100k mile mark. Like the materials, manufacturing, and fluids technology that have improved to allow ICE cars to have long lives without major work, there is no reason to not see the same happen with the technology of plug in traction packs.Like hybrids, as plug-ins gain more years out on the roads, buyer confidence in used ones will also improve.

 

no question.

 

I recently inherited a workshop full of tools. There's a cordless drill that's maybe 15 years old and the battery packs are completely dead. A pair of replacement packs costs not much less than buying a new drill with two packs, a charger, and a carry case. The older power tools with cords still work fine, though are a bit heavy and don't have variable speeds like a new one. The ancient hand tools work as well as a new one (if they still make them) and can be sold for about the same price as a new one, if not a few bucks more. If you only need to drill a hole occasionally, the cordless drill is a bad investment.

 

apparently they didn't have to be .... coincidently - (working OT right now) a hoarder /co-worker is telling me right now about his 11yr old nicad battery (properly stored) drill motor that's still working on its original pack. Likely not as fresh as new, but I was still impressed.
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i have gone through a lot of battery operated tools since they first came out. i started with the most expensive name brands, thinking the batteries would last longer than the cheaper ones.
what i have learned over the years is that all the batteries come from china, and the biggest problem is the chargers. they are still improving them with every iteration, but they still don't keep the batteries very healthy. and the warranties are horrible.
i have been on ryobi for quite awhile now. the price is fairly cheap, the tools are good, and the batteries and chargers are as good as anyones.

 

The OEM battery in my laptop lasted about three years. The replacement battery I got off of eBay for one fifth the price of the OEM, is still going after six years.

 

Gotta give some kudos to that Chinese slave labor going on. Just stay away from their cheap Omegas and the Rolexes

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If you can can get the case apart, and possess basic soldering skills, you can replace the battery cells in the tool pack for much less.

 

That's a misrepresentation of battery-management. Cooling is only part of the equation. A factor that's actually more significant is the SOC (state-of-charge) usage limits. Avoiding recharge levels too high and depletion levels too low really makes a difference.

GM set Volt's at 87% for the high and 22% for the low.

Nissan set Leaf's at 95% for the high and 2% for the low.

That choice to push the battery so much harder has proven to have significant consequence... something you failed to mention. We really need to make an effort to not spread incomplete information like that.

By the way, the choice for Toyota with Prius PHV was to set the high at 85% and the low at 23.1%

 

but we do seem to see a lot more premature lift back battery failures in the south.

 

For me, I believe in the hybrid technology. '09 Camry at 177K, and still going!
I can't drive to a neighboring State, but why would
one wait at a charging station(30 min.?) at your stop to charge an EV car? What if it is in use or out of service?
The gas prices here topped $4.50 gal for regular, it was as low as $1.99 recently.
Doing the payback math may not work out vs a regular car at today's gas price.
If you are for a greener, cleaner environment, less emissions is good! Federal mileage mandates
are only going up.

We have a lot of Prius' on the road here. Was it that 90% of Prius' are still on the road?

It is a FUN car to drive, and at least not as homely looking as
some EV cars I see. The 2016 is cool, edgy looking, in a positive way!

I am waiting for a nice looking coupe!

The next generation of green drivers will continue to
drive the hybrid/EV market. Cars will be more efficient, and cost will come down.

 

There's even a little misinformation in this educated community. With the 8/100k Battery/Drivetrain warranty on the Volt, there haven't been many candidates out of warranty let alone paying for a replacement battery. Like the Prius, failure rates are fairly low in the warranty period.

A used 2013 Volt at under $13K is a smoking hot deal, and I'm not sure why more aren't taking advantage of them, other than fear uncertainty and doubt.

 

i think you've hit on it. the true believers buy new, after that, the market is weak.